Harvest

The Kai Thread

119 posts in this topic

Maestro Kai Drumcam clips fromt the november Espoo Arena Show. SBTB, GLS and WF.

 

 

Nice clips. Weak Fantasy is becomming one of favorite NW-songs drumming wise. Nice groove going on, those tom-patterns are great. I and really like that little off-beat twist with the china-symbals during the chorus. Makes it more interesting. 

 

And, during the first verses of GLS, from 2:07 to 2:12. Now, that's what I would call an impressive fill.  :good:  :good:

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Maestro Kai Drumcam clips fromt the november Espoo Arena Show. SBTB, GLS and WF.

 

 

Nice clips. Weak Fantasy is becomming one of favorite NW-songs drumming wise. Nice groove going on, those tom-patterns are great. I and really like that little off-beat twist with the china-symbals during the chorus. Makes it more interesting. 

 

And, during the first verses of GLS, from 2:07 to 2:12. Now, that's what I would call an impressive fill.  :good:  :good:

 

... and ghost notes (no pun intended!) on the snare that you rarely see metal drummers do in general :)

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And, during the first verses of GLS, from 2:07 to 2:12. Now, that's what I would call an impressive fill.  :good:  :good:

 

... and ghost notes (no pun intended!) on the snare that you rarely see metal drummers do in general :)

 

I came here specifically to comment on those.

Although - come on, it's a legitimate technique in prog and some NWOBHM metal, perhaps less so in trvv norwegian black metal :)

 

This guy is just so good.

Adds so much to basically anything he touches.

He's a Midas.

 

I'll be a Bad Person and say it: in the sole interest of music, I'd really like him to stay.

 

I mean, I get it, Nevalainen is a founding member and it would be mean to kick him while he's down with illness, so that's not gonna happen, but... rats, couldn't he all of a sudden have a burning desire to start a career as a sushi chef or something?

 

Disclaimer: I'm not saying that Nevalainen is bad - he's a pretty damn good Jorg Michael clone; only problem is, I kind of hate the Jorg Michael school of drumming. Me, I like Mark Zonder.

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And, during the first verses of GLS, from 2:07 to 2:12. Now, that's what I would call an impressive fill.  :good:  :good:

 

... and ghost notes (no pun intended!) on the snare that you rarely see metal drummers do in general :)

 

I came here specifically to comment on those.

Although - come on, it's a legitimate technique in prog and some NWOBHM metal, perhaps less so in trvv norwegian black metal :)

 

This guy is just so good.

Adds so much to basically anything he touches.

He's a Midas.

 

I'll be a Bad Person and say it: in the sole interest of music, I'd really like him to stay.

 

I mean, I get it, Nevalainen is a founding member and it would be mean to kick him while he's down with illness, so that's not gonna happen, but... rats, couldn't he all of a sudden have a burning desire to start a career as a sushi chef or something?

 

Disclaimer: I'm not saying that Nevalainen is bad - he's a pretty damn good Jorg Michael clone; only problem is, I kind of hate the Jorg Michael school of drumming. Me, I like Mark Zonder.

 

 

Please, let me correct myself. I was speaking too general level, I admit - BUT if you can point for example Lars Ulrich or Joey Jordison using ghost notes like Jeff Porcaro did (Or Kai does, for that matter), you can shoot me :) 

 

(Let us leave old school metal out of this as well as NWOBHM. That era was too much influenced by blues and jazz anyway ;) I've grown listening to Deep Purple, Rainbow,  Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Whitesnake, Led Zeppelin - amongst dozens of other bands as well - huge idols being names like Ian Paice, Cozy Powell, John Bonham..  Jeff Porcaro biggest of them all, perhaps. And studied the drummers of that era very much from A to Z).

 

Kai's strength is his interest on other music genres as well. He is pretty good jazz drummer, too. His approach toward's playing is different from Jukka's, and not only on technical level (really op!). I wrote somewhere in this forum (before Marco's statement in some video on exactly same matter) that Kai is more "Ian Paice" (I was saying Simon Phillips, i recall) and Jukka is John Bonham. Jukka's style is more heavier and laid back.

 

I am a fan of Kai's playing style more than Jukka's: it has more "air" in it. I can't imagine Jukka playing Weak Fantasy, for example... especially after when they added that little drum solo part in the beginning of the song live!

 

I have met Kai few years back and attended his drum workshop here in Finland. He told us that he has studied ergonomics a lot, in addition working really hard with right techniques.

 

All in all, I hope Jukka all the best. He is good drummer and stand his ground/fills the spot well. But somehow I have personally always missed something extra in his playing - maybe being too secure all the time? dunno. Kai's drumming is more experimental and playful, even live he adds little things here and there. I like that more.

 

 

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What do you think guys, did nightwish wait for a better drummer (Kai in this moment) to play Stargazers? Their last Stargazers (2003) was awful. Out of tune, out of tempo and such. Do you think that Jukka can't afford to play the older songs right?

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Please, let me correct myself. I was speaking too general level, I admit - BUT if you can point for example Lars Ulrich or Joey Jordison using ghost notes like Jeff Porcaro did (Or Kai does, for that matter), you can shoot me :)

 

I applaud you for taking absolutely no risk of being shot by comparing Lars Ulrich and Porcaro on the grounds of subtlety, of all things. Bravo :P

 

I wholeheartedly agree with your post, anyway.

 

Another thing: I like Kai's snare sound a lot more. I've never been a fan of the "KUCCschh" loose snare head that Jukka has been playing since 2004 or so.

 

 

What do you think guys, did nightwish wait for a better drummer (Kai in this moment) to play Stargazers? Their last Stargazers (2003) was awful. Out of tune, out of tempo and such. Do you think that Jukka can't afford to play the older songs right?

 

Probably a different singer rather than a better drummer.

 

I don't think even the most hardcore Anette fanboi would want to hear her singing Stargazers.

 

Posts merged. Please do not double post if your latest post is less than two weeks old. - Dandelion

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I think it's can objectively said that Kai is the technically best drummer of Nightwish. He's even said he loves playing their songs because they are "warm-up" stuff, he plays things far, far, far more complicated with ease on Wintersun. Stargazers and the such sounds impeccable with him.

 

Stargazers 2003 was a disaster on all fronts.

 

I don't think Jukka is ever coming back. Loud drums don't help his chronic condition at all. I'm ok with that, Kal is another piece of the absolute monster band Nightwish is at the moment. It's their musical peak for sure.

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He's even said he loves playing their songs because they are "warm-up" stuff, he plays things far, far, far more complicated with ease on Wintersun. 

 

 

I believe that he may have admitted Wintersun songs being more complicated to play but I highly, highly doubt he would describe NW songs as "warm-up stuff", or even publicly admit they are very easy for him to play. I believe when i see the actual interview but before that, no.

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I believe that he may have admitted Wintersun songs being more complicated to play but I highly, highly doubt he would describe NW songs as "warm-up stuff", or even publicly admit they are very easy for him to play. I believe when i see the actual interview but before that, no.

 

Irrespective of that, for a drummer like Kai most regular power metal drumming probably is warm up stuff :)

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I believe that he may have admitted Wintersun songs being more complicated to play but I highly, highly doubt he would describe NW songs as "warm-up stuff", or even publicly admit they are very easy for him to play. I believe when i see the actual interview but before that, no.

 

Irrespective of that, for a drummer like Kai most regular power metal drumming probably is warm up stuff :)

 

Agree.. but it does not necessarily mean that it is EASY. Its alla about understanding the context and relations between the feel and instruments in the music you play.

 

In fact, Kai probably had to change his playing style a little to fit in. If you compare his very first show(s) and the most recent ones, you hear the difference. now it's slightly more relaxed and more laid back, as NW music needs it to be.

 

Marco said in a "making of" video interview that he had to change HIS playing style when Kai stepped in. Which is quite obvious.

 

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Agree.. but it does not necessarily mean that it is EASY. Its alla about understanding the context and relations between the feel and instruments in the music you play.

 

True.

 

Having the raw chops to play something and understanding what you are playing and why are two different abilities, as anybody who has had the displeasure of being in a blues band with the local Malmsteen wannabe on guitar knows very well :)

 

Even big name players aren't immune to occasional moment of confusion about this :P

 

It seems to me that Kai is smart enough to understand the music as well, though.

 

Not that - frankly - there is that much subtlety to Nightwish drum parts, but I could imagine - I don't know, Mike Portnoy, to name a famous drummer with a... er, peculiar taste in comping, being less wise about this.

 

 

 

Marco said in a "making of" video interview that he had to change HIS playing style when Kai stepped in. Which is quite obvious.

 

 

 

Interesting. Would you care to link to the video (and maybe the exact minute)?

 

Thank you :)

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Agree.. but it does not necessarily mean that it is EASY. Its alla about understanding the context and relations between the feel and instruments in the music you play.

 

True.

 

Having the raw chops to play something and understanding what you are playing and why are two different abilities, as anybody who has had the displeasure of being in a blues band with the local Malmsteen wannabe on guitar knows very well :)

 

Even big name players aren't immune to occasional moment of confusion about this :P

 

It seems to me that Kai is smart enough to understand the music as well, though.

 

Not that - frankly - there is that much subtlety to Nightwish drum parts, but I could imagine - I don't know, Mike Portnoy, to name a famous drummer with a... er, peculiar taste in comping, being less wise about this.

 

 

 

Marco said in a "making of" video interview that he had to change HIS playing style when Kai stepped in. Which is quite obvious.

 

 

 

Interesting. Would you care to link to the video (and maybe the exact minute)?

 

Thank you :)

 

Here's Marco's quote about Kai being Ian and Jukka being John (from official making of trailer #17)

https://youtu.be/rE0gpQpfL2U?t=1m30s

 

And after him kaitsu talks little bit about learning new stuff :)

 

Couldn't find that bass playing quote now... there are like 22 episodes, and can't remember where that was :D But now there is a good reason for you to watch them all! ;)

 

EDIT. I am not even sure if that quote is in those official trailers or was it some other interview...

 

 

 

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In today's Pohjalainen newspaper Kai confirms he will continue to play drums for Nightwish in 2018 when they return from break.

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That means he will be the drummer on the next album. I miss Jukka, but Kai is brilliant and I like him too. No problem about it.

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I may be off topic but I am so sorry for Jukka, it seems that insomnia thing is just a lie :( (since Jukka confirmed that he feels better than ever). Sad. 

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I may be off topic but I am so sorry for Jukka, it seems that insomnia thing is just a lie :( (since Jukka confirmed that he feels better). Sad.

Well, I'm sure it's NOT a lie. My guess is that he just doesnt want to risk his health, being a husband and father of young kids. Totally understandable, and respectable, if that's the case. He may have been symptom-free but I don't think he has been travelling intensively (just a guess, though). It's a whole different story showing no symptoms while sleeping in your own bed than sleeping week in and week out in a tour bus and/or hotel beds with post-show adrenaline flowing through your body. 

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Oh, I'll say it: I'm glad.

 

Kai brings the band to another level, he's just that good.

 

I'll stress it: I'm not saying Jukka is a bad drummer - but somehow I think, paradoxically, that Kai's style fits better with the specific kind of music the band is playing these days.

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Yes, Jukka is by no means a bad drummer. No, he is excellent. It's just that Kai is an unbelievably good drummer. With his precision-playing and awesome fills the songs have a bit more 'colour' (for lack of a better term) in them than they used to. When you listen to those high-quality releases (Stargazers @ Masters of Rock and She is my Sin & Amaranth @ NW cruise) you cannot help but to be in total awe of Kai's drumming. Of course the whole band is on fire and massive credit to every single one of them but now that we're in the Kai thread, I'm only focusing on the drumming part.

 

Maybe Nightwish should transform into, not a two-guitar-band but a two-drumset-band so we could have both Jukka and Kai stay :D

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Both guys are great and whoever is on the throne going forward will have my support.

If it's Kai at least we keep Jukka working as mr businessman for the band, so still around in a way.

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Yes, Jukka is by no means a bad drummer. No, he is excellent. It's just that Kai is an unbelievably good drummer. With his precision-playing and awesome fills the songs have a bit more 'colour' (for lack of a better term) in them than they used to.

 

Yes.

And I find this very important when the band plays to a tape all the time and the sound is basically an impossibly huge wall of guitars, overdriven bass, choir and pieno orchestra.

 

Kai's Zonderesque sharpness makes it all go down easier.

 

 

Maybe Nightwish should transform into, not a two-guitar-band but a two-drumset-band so we could have both Jukka and Kai stay :D

 

/me thinks of Ringo's All-Starr Lameness, in which the top-billed drummer literally only keeps time on the hi-hat while Pat Mastellotto or Gregg Bissonette handle the actual drum parts, and shivers.

 

 

 

 

Stargazers 2003 was a disaster on all fronts.

 

Uhm, can we have a link to this performance? I don't remember it being on any setlist in 2003.

 

By the way, someone needs to beat up Emppu with a large stick until he actually gives justice to the lead parts on that song live.

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Yes, Jukka is by no means a bad drummer. No, he is excellent. It's just that Kai is an unbelievably good drummer. With his precision-playing and awesome fills the songs have a bit more 'colour' (for lack of a better term) in them than they used to.

 

Yes.

And I find this very important when the band plays to a tape all the time and the sound is basically an impossibly huge wall of guitars, overdriven bass, choir and pieno orchestra.

 

Kai's Zonderesque sharpness makes it all go down easier.

 

 

Maybe Nightwish should transform into, not a two-guitar-band but a two-drumset-band so we could have both Jukka and Kai stay :D

 

/me thinks of Ringo's All-Starr Lameness, in which the top-billed drummer literally only keeps time on the hi-hat while Pat Mastellotto or Gregg Bissonette handle the actual drum parts, and shivers.

 

 

 

 

Stargazers 2003 was a disaster on all fronts.

 

Uhm, can we have a link to this performance? I don't remember it being on any setlist in 2003.

 

 

 

I think it was this, 2004  everybody is talking about

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In today's Pohjalainen newspaper Kai confirms he will continue to play drums for Nightwish in 2018 when they return from break.

 

Is there a way to find this information on Pohjalainen website too?

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