Carol

Nightwish Off Topic

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18 hours ago, avalonkillah said:

Hello, Good People, could anyone help me find the full version of that whole "pätkä bändi" line? I'm working on an indy metal album and would like to put that on the cover somewhere. Thanks!

The line goes "Paska bändi, paskat kamat, ei kaupallista potentiaalia" (="💩 band, 💩equipment, no commercial potential"). You can hear it said out loud in the very beginning (like first 10 seconds) of End Of Innocence documentary, which can be found on Youtube, I don't know if I'm allowed to link it here.

If you want to check the review that sparked this motto, see the translation here:

edit. Just remembered the no swearing, so I censored it a bit.. Left the Finnish ones as is so that spelling becomes clear,  hope that's okay!

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OK, this vocal coach just compared some head voice/belting notes from Floor vs Ariana Grande. Of course the comment section is flooded by Floor fans, but it's worth watching if you like this kind of content.

 

I like the idea of comparing pop/metal singers as a way to show the underrated talent of our dear metal singers, but also to show that pop singers are very good too! I'm not a fan of Ariana's music, but I admit the girl can sing!

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@Damian Nice to see Floor "win" this "battle" and of course it's in fun. There are methodological problems if it were to be taken seriously but the bigger victory as you say is credible people noting just how good Floor is. Not that I feel (any longer) that she needs/wants it but I certainly understand why some of us do!

This coach gave sensible comments on Floor's Waken GLS performance previously. What is interesting to me is why are high notes so important? I'm not saying they aren't but asking why they affect us differently.

Objectively I knew Floor was a good singer in less than a minute. Maybe in as little as 10-20 seconds. Accepting/reconciling just how good took...longer (as described elsewhere). But within the span of any song I've heard I'd have called her great.

Many of these coaches say, "Beautiful tone. Lovely silky voice. Nice mix. Great transition. Oh, here's her head voice! Belting here is very well done. Ooh some grit now. That punctuation requires excellent support and control. This isn't easy. Very versatile." etc. etc.

Then she gets to the high notes at the end and it's, "This is a great singer!"

Yes but... she was a great singer before the high notes; she would be a great singer if she left out the high notes; she'd be a great singer if she couldn't hit those high notes!

Would she be great if she had that range but not much else to offer? I don't think so. The notes are impressive; icing on the cake. And yet still…

When a guitarist is wailing away it's nice, but when it climbs toward the end of the fretboard, "What a great solo!" It's visceral somehow. On violin, cello, double bass this is actually quite a bit harder to do than lower down. Intonation is much harder and/or the reach is awkward. Not sure if this is so for fretted instruments held across the body. But I'm not convinced it relates to the difficulty. If the soloist played five, ten frets lower would the solo still be great? Or would it just be "nice"? I'm sincerely curious as to why.

Maybe we're all just children crying in the wilderness and we know this sound too well. Maybe it's the call of the pack showing us the way to safety and belonging. An innately understood wailing, or the moaning wind (or the wind between my ears). It must be something - or several somethings - because the effect seems pretty universal.

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2 hours ago, Figment-of-me said:

Many of these coaches say, "Beautiful tone. Lovely silky voice. Nice mix. Great transition. Oh, here's her head voice! Belting here is very well done. Ooh some grit now. That punctuation requires excellent support and control. This isn't easy. Very versatile." etc. etc.

Then she gets to the high notes at the end and it's, "This is a great singer!"

From my perspective, if you're referring to the end note of GLS, I think the reason all coaches say that it's great is not because it's high, but rather the way she deliver it. 

I have watched all vocal coach reactions to Nightwish and I think it was Beth Roars who described this very well: the way she rides on the high headvoice before suddenly jumping down to belting/chest voice in a split second is very hard to do. Then she also has a nice and clean hold on the "yoooooooooou" part, where they seem to be impressed that her voice does not crack.

 

Edit:

I think the below reaction is my favorite. Tara does not only describe all aspects of Floor's voice and how good her different technics are (not only the high note), but she also gives a huge amount of credit to Jukka for his drumming (which is the biggest sound and atmosphere input in GLS) and the whole band in general for playing so tight together.

 

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11 hours ago, Figment-of-me said:

What is interesting to me is why are high notes so important? I'm not saying they aren't but asking why they affect us differently.

In this particular case, I believe it's due to the fact they have a sorpano register, that means they can hit those high notes mainly. Their techniques are different, also the musical style, so it's a good and fair comparison if that's what the original video author wanted to do.

11 hours ago, Figment-of-me said:

Yes but... she was a great singer before the high notes; she would be a great singer if she left out the high notes; she'd be a great singer if she couldn't hit those high notes!

Yeah, it'd be great if those patreons could share some material from After Forever/RV more frequently. I mean performances like Monolith of Doubt, Follow In The Cry, Here's My Hell, Break, Alone (Heart cover), Discord, Beatiful Emptiness, I Lost Myself. Maybe Valley of The Queens, they have 3 awesome singers there.

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On the risk of sounding like a broken record I still don’t get why people care so much about what random people trying to make a quick and cheap buck out of a band’s popularity have to say about their respective singer.
Like anyone, especially fans, needed to be told Floor was a great singer.

And why do they sometimes look like a deer about to be hit by a truck in the thumbnail?

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I think it's more about being excited to see people discover the band, or re-discover them after not having listened to or paid attention to them since 2005. I do agree that making an entire career out of reacting to popular videos on YouTube is questionable, but then again so is being an "influencer" on social media. A lot of people actually discover new music through reaction channels these days.

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The coaches generally don't make such a big deal about the range. Here the requester wants a reaction to a video explicitly comparing singers going high into their soprano range. I've talked about this a bit before, but good on the coach to look at vocal tension and the specific techniques being used.  But why for example compare a clip of one singer belting a high note to another hitting it in head voice? The coach just says that one technique is harder but the comparison isn't very informative in the sense of who is the better singer. Compare them executing the same thing!

My bigger question is does a high note/passage have some special quality that makes us feel something more? I think so but don't exactly understand why. In for example the violin concerto repertoire there are many famous cadenzas (solos) with significant focus on the upper extreme range of the instrument. Muddying this is the fact that it's hard to do well, and virtuosic = difficult + beautiful in a simplistic sense. A concerto is at its least a vehicle to show off how good the soloist is (and hopefully also has other musical value!)

I see the same thing in guitar solos and tenor singing. The mezzo, the baritone and the violist (the inner voices) don't get their due! The Russian octavist, organ pedal tones and great bass lines get noticed but don't seem to be celebrated in the same way. Why?

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Well, maybe this even deserves its own topic in News and announcements...? A press statement has been released.

Quote

Nightwish has begun working on their 9th studio album, set to be released during spring 2020.

Below you will find a statement from Jukka Nevalainen, who`s been the drummer in the band since their 1997 debut album “Angels Fall First”:

“It has now been five years since my difficult decision, due to severe insomnia, to step aside from the Vehicle of Spirit of Nightwish. This included the previous studio album and the tours which followed. 

As I then expected, it turned out to be the right thing to do. These days I'm doing fantastic, and hardly ever need to deal with any sleeping issues. It also dawned on me that having more time to merely focus on band - related things happening behind the curtains made all the difference. 

Having said this, I have decided not to push my luck by returning to the band. My dear pal Kai Hahto will take my place as a full-time member of the band. I will continue to take care of the band`s businesses in the background, and I`m very much looking forward to what other adventures life has to offer!

My sincere thank you`s for the band and the fans for the glorious time we shared!“

Jukka

A round of applause for Jukka!

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Well, it doesn't come as a surprise, I think most of us knew this was going to happen. But I will miss his presence behind his drumkit :( Anyway, a round of applause for him and another one for Kai. The show must go on.

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24 minutes ago, NeoGeorg said:

A round of applause for Jukka!

Even though I knew this was going to happen I still feel very sad. He's always been one of my favorite members in the band and have impacted their sound a lot during the years. 

I will miss him greatly! But I'm happy we have Kai :) He has done amazing things with Nightwish for the past five years and seem like very humble and nice guy. As a musician he's technically a beast, so I'm interested to see how his input will impact the new album. 

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Yeah, we all knew it, but it's kind of weird seeing it officially announced. But I'm ok with that, Jukka hasn't been in the band for exactly 5 years now. And I'm really interested in seeing Kai's input as well.

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I'm kinda sad, but knowing that Jukka is pretty much still working behind the scenes makes me happy.

Besides, Kai Is a drums god.

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All respect to Jukka for the foundational work and wonderful spirit he brought to the stage. The Waken 2013 show was my introduction to the group. His presence and commitment behind the kit was one of the things you just had to notice.

Right for him and right for Kai to be made a full member. And Jukka will be involved in an important way that lets him stay well!

A while back I finally listened to a Wintersun track (not sure why it took so long) - those boys can rock! I had no idea what to expect. Seemed very technical to me. I'm sure Kai can give what they need of him and if they go that way (more drum focused), even more!

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Well, this was expected. I think it's surprising that it took this long to make Kai a member, it's been one album and two long world tours already. Or maybe Jukka really made the decision just know when the preparations for the new album are starting. 

I personally still miss Kai in Swallow the Sun. There is still hoping that Nightwish starts to make us of Kai's skills on the upcoming album but we'll see. But personally I'm kind of sad that he left one of my favorite bands for Nightwish. But I guess money speaks.

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I think bittersweet is the best way to describe this feeling. I am equally as sad about Jukka officially stepping down, as expected as it was, as I am thrilled about Kai joining the band full-time. He's the perfect replacement.

Big thank you to Jukka for all his amazing work in the band through the years!

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