Carol

Nightwish Off Topic

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^ Without knowing who would be best in this context I do feel it's not a strength of hers. Some don't like to hear any criticism of Floor and it should be clear I adore her  from a music perspective (she's pretty great all around from what I can tell).

She doesn't always lock or blend with her partner. You can rightly say (and I have) that she's the principal and it's the others' task to blend with her. True but it works best with everyone pulling together.

And just to be clear, this is a nit pick. What she's doing is already great!

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On 11/28/2019 at 3:20 AM, Figment-of-me said:

She doesn't always lock or blend with her partner. You can rightly say (and I have) that she's the principal and it's the others' task to blend with her. True but it works best with everyone pulling together.

Disagree. 3 totally random examples of Floor's non-NW collaborations:

Floor blending perfectly in with Anneke and Marcela in a cheesy fusion of prog rock.

A really beautful duet with Tom Englund IMHO.

Floor being vocally drowned out by Soilwork's lead singer.

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I feel Floor has zero chemistry with Marco. Anette is his best duet partner by far.

Floor sounds better with Troy as far as I'm concerned. 

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@Spectre Yes I enjoy those examples. Sure, she can do it - I mean, what can't she do really? For a recent counter example of her not doing it there's Phantom with Henk P. Their duet with her on the high part is really good, then at the end, "inside my mind", he finishes in tempo and she goes off script. Maybe they discussed it before but I doubt it. Too bad we don't see his face - doubt he was upset but I'll guess he wore a "what the *bleep*" expression, even if just for an instant.

This is really subtle, but they don't end together where clearly they should. At least to me they should.

Here's what I think happens: Floor gets carried away in the moment. The inspiration is flowing and she just goes with it. It's one of the things that makes her a delightful soloist, so why would I complain? It's just that with a second it can feel out of place.

There are multiple examples of her and Marko timing the same lyrics differently while singing them together, and also of them not ending together. Does anyone care? Maybe not but it's true. I've put that more on poor Marko. Floor can probably match him. Can he do it? I think yes with effort/attention.  No-one has to believe me but I do assert that being a good accompanist is not automatic, even if you're musical. It is a skill you have to work on.

In classical ensemble and orchestral playing this is essential and there is a well understood set of precedence from soloist+conductor to concert master and principals and cascading down through the sections. You're coordinating many moving parts and there just has to be a system - unless you like the thrill of the entire thing falling apart mid performance.

Does that apply to rock? Maybe not in that way. But when we say, "that band is tight" it shows it is valued. Nightwish often synchs with a backing track or even fireworks. The timing has to be strict. So what about Floor's rubato? As a soloist she does a great job and locks back in with the continuing in tempo parts in the right place. It's cool and I love it! Just I'd love it more if both singers did the same in duet sections.

Wrote too much already but as to being overpowered this is so familiar! I'll swear if it weren't for those damned musicologists you could poach some great melodies from, say, a Beethoven symphony. There are sections that no-one but the composer and those who've played it have ever heard before because they're consistently overplayed by louder instruments. Even when the pros do it! Horns, we love you guys! :giggle:

 

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Hmm, to me Floor and Marko clearly have the best chemistry of all the Nightwish singers he sung with, especially live. I agree that I probably like the vocal harmonies between him and Anette on their albums most, but they were frequently unable to pull them off as nicely live.

Marko and Floor sound great live together consistently. What I really love though is when they trade off vocals, like on the Devil. Or arrangements like on Elan, where Troy does the backing vocals and Marko those long notes.

Generally, I think Marko is a really, really good backing vocalist, considering the hugely different style of voices hes worked with in Nightwish and in other bands  like Delain and that he nearly always manages to make his partner sound good. That is quite an underrated skill, imo. No wonder he's been asked to guest on like a 1000 different projects :)

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10 hours ago, Ahasverus said:

I feel Floor has zero chemistry with Marco. Anette is his best duet partner by far.

Floor sounds better with Troy as far as I'm concerned. 

Definitely agree.

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Zero chemistry between Floor and Marko? Sorry, but they seem to be in the same band for more than 10 years, just look at the Devil & the Deep Dark Ocean 2018 performance. Even when they do not share lines on a song, they make interactions and equal stage moves like on Dark Chest of Wonders. The winning duo by far.

Maybe it's more appropriated to say that they suit better the heavier stuff as a duet, while him and Anette were very good on the slower songs and ballads, then I agree.

Tarja and Marko sound and look very sincere and natural for me actually. Maybe their voices don't clash that well together on a few songs due their quite distinctive voice tones, but they had something together of course. The Siren, Planet Hell and The Phantom are perfect with them as a duo in my opinion.

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20 minutes ago, GhostHell said:

Zero chemistry between Floor and Marko? Sorry, but they seem to be in the same band for more than 10 years, just look at the Devil & the Deep Dark Ocean 2018 performance. Even when they do not share lines on a song, they make interactions and equal stage moves like on Dark Chest of Wonders. The winning duo by far.

Obviously talking about their voices. Their personal vibe is super cool. It's easy to see how comfortable and upbeat Marko (And the rest of the band really) looks since Floor is with us.  At this point, I'd dare to say that's more important than anything else. The band is formed by human beings who live their lives in it. If they're happy, that's all that matters, and it gets reflected in the music too. It's nice.

Now, on musical terms. I feel that Tarja and Marko worked really well in a "majestic beauty and the beast" type of vibe. Meanwhile, Marko and Anette had an awesome contrast in which the resulting mix was really bright and interesting to listen to. However the Marco and Floor pair sounds like "Beast and the other beast". Of course Floor can also sing with a soft, tender voice, but it's not her natural state. She's almost always savage, and so is Marco, and the resulting mix is less interesting from a musical standpoint.

Not that their duet is a flop or anything, they're good enough. It just lacks the contrast of the other two.

 

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I don't think their vocals are incompatible, which is what "no chemistry" would imply. Tarja and Marko have zero chemistry to me though. They just sound way too different, all the time. Anette's voice sounds better together with Marko's (but as with most things Anette, this mostly just applies to her studio vocals). But I think Floor's versatility extends to how her voice lends itself to being paired up with other voices. It rarely ever clashes with any other voice, so she sounds good singing together with most other singers. But I feel like she sounds the best when she's trading lines with male vocalists, and when she's singing in harmony with female vocalists. As far as harmonising in Nightwish goes, I think she sounds the best when both Marko and Troy sing the harmonies (like in Come Cover Me), as opposed to only Marko.

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Chemistry to me implies how they interact. Do they flirt, scowl, dance, tease etc? Yes. Do they like each other. Yes. Does it come across in the music.. yeah you know the pattern.

I think their voices are compatible. Part of the art will be creating something meaningful or appealing from the material you're working with. I think they do this too! But their voices don't clash to me.

Contrast may be something people enjoy in this music. I do. The "metalness" and heaviness is neither here nor there to me. It works or it doesn't in each context -  but I get it's important to many. When Marko sings clean that's a contrast. When it's sweet against harsh etc.

The "progginess" is something to me too. Not a verse/chorus/repeat kind of structure. It's more interesting! 

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