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Floor's Metal Test [Metal Hammer]

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Seems like the mudslinging on the asocial networks has begun; just noticed that some face-bonkers keep on trolling Floor's and also NW's account.

 

Those insults against NW are just another example par excellence of the shallowness of FB discussions and some of its users - Floor clearly did only express her personal opinion rather than speaking on behalf of the band, and Marco actually is a Slayer fan (http://nightwish.com/en/band/marco-hietala) !

 

Team Rock certainly owes a big thanks to Floor for almost 10k shares of its "metal test" article on the web and all the (accidental) promotion of the new Metal Hammer issue! I just hope the whole story deflates at some point.

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What this fuss is all about? She said her PERSONAL opinion. People can't accept that someone has opinion that is different from their. She said Slayer is boring and dreadful. So what?

If your opinion isn't the same as the most people, people attack you. What a wonderful world.

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Team Rock certainly owes a big thanks to Floor for almost 10k shares of its "metal test" article on the web and all the (accidental) promotion of the new Metal Hammer issue! I just hope the whole story deflates at some point.

That was exactly their goal, I suppose. To make a storm in a teacup and get new readers. We don't know what was said in the interview - were they talking about Slayer before that question, did she give that quoted answer to that one question or did she just say she's not fond of Slayer and then the interviewer asked her more about it, etc... But ok, nice that they highlighted that one little part of an interview and got more likes and shares, while Floor is getting personal insults on her accounts.

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Teamrock is getting increasingly shadier. They often cut part of someone else's interview and put it behind a paywall with a sensationalist title. I don't like the site at all.

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Or become a fan of After Forever

Or Revamp.

 

Why not?  Neither project has any hope of reuniting at the moment.

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So Floor's statement on Slayer is something like a 2016 rehash of Anette's 2012 statement on Britney and Rihanna. Should we brace ourselves for the new singer? 

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I think there needs to be a distinction here: I have no problem with her saying Slayer is a boring band. I think so too, from what I've heard of them. But to call them dreadful, no. No matter what you think of their music, Slayer are metal legends, and they've worked very hard for it. They are a good band, it's not like they can't play. And I don't even think that's what Floor meant with dreadful, but I get how people could see it that way. I think Manowar is a hillariously overrated band in terms of their music, but as a musician I think you still need to show those bands the respect they deserve for their accomplishments. I personally don't love Eric Adams' voice, but I'll never question that the man can sing. 

 

 

.... Well, this escalated quickly :P

 

I mean, if another band replied to that same question by saying something like "Well, definitely not Nightwish, they suck/ they're boring/ they seem to have substituted "innovation" for "make the long song even longer next time!"", I think we could all agree that was a bit of a cheap shot ;)

 

So they can say it in private but not in public? I mean fans say it all the time, why can't bands say it? Personally I can totally see how other bands could see Nightwish as, not as a band who sucks but as an overrated band. I mean there are bands who are technically far better than Nightwish as individual players and don't get a fraction of the attention Nightwish gets. Not for singers so much now that they have Floor, but for keyboarders and guitarists I could definitely see that. Not saying that what Emppu and Tuomas play is easy, but just speaking for the keyboard side I don't think it's super hard either. And even composition wise, Nightwish has the orchestra and melodies but their song structures (from the number of individual parts and how they are chained together, and with obvious exceptions) aren't all that impressive. Hits like Wish I had an angel or Nemo have the most boring song structure in the world. 

 

"Dreadful" doesn't need to mean that they are bad musicians, or that they haven't worked hard though - she might acknowledge that they are good musicians but simply really dislike their output. That's fair enough.

 

I think you misunderstand my point - I have no issue with Floor stating her opinion on Slayer - I would have had no problem even if she had said "They're just terrible, I find nothing redeeming about them at all". If she had been asked "What do you think of Slayer?" or "What is your least favourite metal band?" or "Any unpopular opinions about bands?" or anything like that, her answer would have made perfect sense and as I said above, she's under no obligation to like a band just because it's big in the genre. But she was asked "What is the most metal CD you own/ have owned?" or something similar, and she randomly decided to answer this by talking about how she doesn't like Slayer. It was the fact that she basically went out of her way and ignored the question in order to say something negative about another band, and I would have thought that was harsh regardless of the band she was talking about. Hence my point about if someone - let's say Kerry King :P - had answered "What is the most metal CD you own?" by talking about how boring Nightwish was, I think we'd all be in eye rolly agreement that it was unnecessary. If he was asked "What is your opinion on Nightwish?" and answered the same, then fair enough, he was asked for his opinion and gave it. It's the context that bothers me, not the opinion expressed.

 

That said, I hope Floor doesn't come in for internet hate and trolling nonsense just because she doesn't like Slayer - given that she is a woman expressing an opinion on an area that certain internet bottom dwellers want to claim as a "male space", and based on the misogynist nonsense that was Gamergate, I fear that she may.

 

 

But she did answer the question: ""I mainly listen to metal, so they are all metal albums. But the most metal? Some would say SLAYER, but I think they're a dreadful band. Unbelievably boring. Terrible. Apparently it's not metal to say that, but it's a personal opinion." The first sentence answers the question. I think the thing about Slayer is more an expression of how stupid the question actually is. What the hell does "the most metal" mean?

 

@Baki: You know the answer to that is in Nightwish's lyrics: "You chose the long road, but we'll be waiting"

 

:P

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Who would you suggest?

 

Following their geographical route, they started off with Finland, went on to Sweden, and continued westwards to the Netherlands. The next one should be British, I guess. 

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I'm not a fan of political correctness but even I think that to say " I think they're a dreadful band. Unbelievably boring. Terrible. " of a band Nightwish often shares a stage with (in the past and propably in the future, too) is an unbeliavably stupid thing to say. But life is life and these kind of brain farts happen. You move on.

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I'm not a fan of political correctness but even I think that to say " I think they're a dreadful band. Unbelievably boring. Terrible. " of a band Nightwish often shares a stage with (in the past and propably in the future, too) is an unbeliavably stupid thing to say. But life is life and these kind of brain farts happen. You move on.

Yeah, not very intelligent on her side. I don't like Slayer very much, but they have been around for over thirty years and they deserve some respect, especially taking into account some members of NW are their fans (at least Marco is) and that they have had a great influence on the development of metal over the last three decades. I think Floor is too active on the net and that she should relax a little and think her words may have some bad influence on the band. Floor, I really love you, but, please, why don't you think things twice before talking?

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So Floor's statement on Slayer is something like a 2016 rehash of Anette's 2012 statement on Britney and Rihanna. Should we brace ourselves for the new singer? 

Oh nah, that was mostly mobs of salty Nightwish fans attacking her. She did not really target anyone there.

 

I'm reading through the comments on her instagram.... So when I went to the Nightwish concert last year, Sabaton opened for them. Ive lived in New York City all of my life and I never really encountered the metal stereotype of aggressive socially awkward dudes dressed in black with awful facial hair until I went to the concert :P. I can only imagine hardcore metalonlyeveryothergenereofmusicisbadgrrrchinpubes Slayer fans to be worse than what I saw based on what they are writing.

 

(For the record I thought Sabaton sounded ok)

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(For the record I thought Sabaton sounded ok)

 

No wonder. Their tunes are heavy yet melodic. Not just senseless bashing of instruments. I'm no musician nor a songwriter but I'd imagine that of all genres of music, to write trash metal songs demands least talent. By a clear margin.

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(For the record I thought Sabaton sounded ok)

 

No wonder. Their tunes are heavy yet melodic. Not just senseless bashing of instruments. I'm no musician nor a songwriter but I'd imagine that of all genres of music, to write trash metal songs demands least talent. By a clear margin.

 

 

Nah, not even close. Pop songs are way simpler than trash metal. So is german folk music. And rap is arguably not demanding musical talent so much as lyrical talent (mostly, of course you need to come up with the music, but it's really repetitive). Actually, listen to Machine Head's "Unto the Locust". Not easy to write at all.

 

But talent wise, it is just different. Pop songs demand another type of talent than writing symphonies. You always need a lot of talent for writing a good song in any genre.

 

EDIT: If we're talking about education, that's different. But even there I don't see how you need less education to write trash metal songs than two write Sabaton songs. I mean I like Sabaton, but Sabaton does zero interesting things on their albums anymore. It's always the same formula repeated over and over. That doesn't need a lot of musical education. I think many metal artists sort of learn what they need to to do what they want to do without ever having a formal education in the sense of actually studying at a conservatory. And for metal that's fine because it's more free-spirited than music like symphonies where you really do have to know a lot of theory to write a good one. Not saying you need no education to write metal songs, but arguably less.

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Don't care for her opinion, but it's a bit awkward if - and this is going to happen - Nightwish and Slayer are playing on the same festival again in 2018? 

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Christ on a bike, I fail to see how what I said relates to this in any way at all. (Also, I'm not 18, not sure if that's what you were implying). I have a problem with people getting slammed for liking music that isn't "pure metal" or that fans of music outside that definition are "posers" or "bad" or whatever. I was referring my only to things said in this thread, not to the culture in general. But, if you don't like that music evolves and think genre lines should be stringently adhered to and kept separate from one another -- well, we're never going to agree on that.

 

 

Not to worry - I'll clarify the matter for you. 

To be honest, I don't even remember making that post... went out for a couple drinks with a coworker last night, a couple turned into how many? and I'm not even sure how I got home. Regardless, I can still stand by what I say. 

You're familiar with Godwin's Law? Maybe nobody's put a name to it, but you could coin a similar law for pretty much any Metal forum.. two fans disagree, one is going to throw out the word "elitist" like it's some kind of magical card which ends the argument then and there. 99 times out of 100, that's how it gets used. So, yeah, I don't hide my contempt for those folks, especially since it's the Johnny-come-lately sorts who usually end up being the ones to do it. Are there legitimate instances? Sure, but, for the most part, people use it as an emergency exit. So, I feel I'm in a position to be dismissive of it, and I'm going to be. 

Doesn't matter if they're 18 or in their 40s.. all age groups have their fly-by-nighters, whether it's the 15 year-old who downloaded the entire Darkthrone discography and decided he was suddenly the most evil thing since evil itself, or the 30-something who jumped into it in the midst of a midlife crisis.. "umm... yeah, sure, I was always here.. no, really". It's not to say that they should be excluded, but both sorts seem hell bent on taking a mile for every inch given. 

As for music evolving, there's evolving, and there's watering down. When music scenes which are basically a continuation of the Alt/Grunge scene from the 90s are suddenly flooding these 'Metal' publications, that's not Metal evolving - that's the music industry trying to force it in because they figure they can turn a buck by calling it 'Metal' and passing it off as something more extreme by having that label attached to it. Same thing with bands which basically play pop music behind a thin veil of guitars.... if rejecting that is elitist in your eyes, I'm not really inclined to give two *****. More than likely, you and those who object so adamantly will have jumped ship and gone onto other things five or ten years from now. So, those who find themselves dismissed in such a way like to call it elitism. The reality of it is, we've seen you people come and go, so why are we supposed to suddenly expect otherwise?

And, as for Floor, I can stand by what I said in my post last night, as well. If it's not her thing, it's not her thing. Those of us who've been in it for more than  day realize that not every band is going to sit the right way with everyone, and aren't going to be upset in any way about it... personally, I've been lukewarm at best about everything Slayer's released since Divine Intervention, and I mean lukewarm only at absolute best on a good day, and a lot of others who were into Slayer before that album are going to feel the same way... do you really expect that those who have such sentiment and aren't particularly bashful about expressing it are going to suddenly be upset that someone shares in that same sentiment and decide they need to go on the warpath over it? Color me skeptical on that. I expect it's going to be mostly the Johnny-Come-Lately folk like the aforementioned kid who found his 'inner Satan' by downloading the Darkthrone discography and now feels like they have something to prove to the world. The reality is, many of us who get slammed as elitists for not walking lock-in-step with the newcomers who think they're Metal gods or whatever are every bit as opposed to this ***** as those of you trying to pin the blame on us for it. 

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Any kind of pretentiousness is awful; that, it seems, we can agree on.

 

Anyhow, more than likely in a month no one will remember she said anything about it. I sympathize with MH needing to attract readers (especially since I worked at a floundering magazine for a while), but these clickbait-y headlines aren't doing much for their credibility.

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So much drama over nothing. For better or worse, Floor seems very opinionated and doesn't mind sharing her thoughts regardless if they're popular or not. I do however think part of the reason why this is causing such a fuss is because she is a woman. Male musicians get away with not only sharing their blunt opinions but also saying questionable things all the time. It does feel like people are especially eager to strip women in metal of their metal credentials.

 

And please, keep the "tr00 metull" elitism nonsense off this forum.

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So much drama over nothing. For better or worse, Floor seems very opinionated and doesn't mind sharing her thoughts regardless if they're popular or not. I do however think part of the reason why this is causing such a fuss is because she is a woman. Male musicians get away with not only sharing their blunt opinions but also saying questionable things all the time. It does feel like people are especially eager to strip women in metal of their metal credentials.

I have to disagree with the male-female argument. I'm sure we're all more or less familiar with the controversies caused by Bruce Dickinson with his comments. I don't  see much of a difference in the reaction by the media or the fans in Bruce vs. Floor. Of course since it's the Iron Maiden, the magnitude is ten-fold with Bruce. But the way people react is still pretty much the same I think. What bothers me with these kind of comments is that do they really not realize that they make the comments as individuals yet the consequences will be beared (mostly) by the band. Or do they really not care? If that was the case, then it's worrying. But, I'm sure that is not the case with Floor since you really get the feeling that she absolutely loves being in Nightwish. Hence like I said earlier, I think this was just a brain fart and whether or not she would ever publicly admit she regrets the extremely harsh words she said, in reality I think she does.

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So much drama over nothing. For better or worse, Floor seems very opinionated and doesn't mind sharing her thoughts regardless if they're popular or not. I do however think part of the reason why this is causing such a fuss is because she is a woman. Male musicians get away with not only sharing their blunt opinions but also saying questionable things all the time. It does feel like people are especially eager to strip women in metal of their metal credentials.

 

And please, keep the "tr00 metull" elitism nonsense off this forum.

 

Well in a sense women are sort of newcomers in the genre, especially those who ride on the symphonic metal wave. Of course there have always been women in metal, but not to this degree of visibility (and Jeff can correct me if I'm wrong on this). I think to this day the proportion of male metal musicians is much higher than that of female metal musicians. Tell me one even moderately famous metal band outside of Indica who have a majority of women. Metal is still a male dominated genre, and as such it has the same problems with women as IT still has with women: They are a minority. Minorities are generally more scrutinized than the majority, that's just how human society is. I'm sure it is the reverse for men who, to pick a random example, become teachers at a preschool or primary school. It just takes time for those fields to adjust to more of the other gender coming in. And of course if you have one of the arguably top 5 famous female metal musicians in the world, every word will be doubly scrutinized. 

 

Weeeell Nightwish never has been nor will ever be tru00 metul, so yeah we can keep this out of the discussion :P

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Not only that, this is a fresh, yesterday Floor quote. Directly from the wolf's mouth. 

I think that we’re very happy with where we are right now. We are a bit of a stubborn band which will keep on going their own way and you really like us or not. It’s not really metal, so I think that it should be possible to grab the attention of a much bigger audience, also in the Netherlands. Our real ambition is however just to be able to keep on doing what we’re doing right now.

http://www.femmemetalwebzine.net/2016/11/29/floor-jansen-nightwish/

 

RG0BS1U.gif

 

Now any metalsnobs can go find the nearest exit.

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So much drama over nothing. For better or worse, Floor seems very opinionated and doesn't mind sharing her thoughts regardless if they're popular or not. I do however think part of the reason why this is causing such a fuss is because she is a woman. Male musicians get away with not only sharing their blunt opinions but also saying questionable things all the time. It does feel like people are especially eager to strip women in metal of their metal credentials.

 

And please, keep the "tr00 metull" elitism nonsense off this forum.

 

Yea even though the hormones comment was funny, it doesn't have anything to do with Floor being a woman.  If it was say...Troy and we know Troy was expecting, we'd probably make the same "pregnancy hormones" joke about him too.

 

 

and if you're going to mock it like that than no.

 

 

Not only that, this is a fresh, yesterday Floor quote. Directly from the wolf's mouth. 

I think that we’re very happy with where we are right now. We are a bit of a stubborn band which will keep on going their own way and you really like us or not. It’s not really metal, so I think that it should be possible to grab the attention of a much bigger audience, also in the Netherlands. Our real ambition is however just to be able to keep on doing what we’re doing right now.

 

 

Now any metalsnobs can go find the nearest exit.

 
:rolleyes: Cry more, 
 
Also that interview seems made up to try and stir up crap.  Care to source that?

 

Swearing removed - WhiteRaven

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