GhostHell

The Upcoming Nightwish Album

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As i mulled potential album titles based on this line of reasoning, I figured that it could look to convey the idea of humankind's journey from Eden to modern times and beyond towards Homo Deus, if you will. Tuomas has always made prominent use of biblical and specifically Edenic imagery, including in the celebration of the secular worldview that was Endless Forms Most Beautiful, so doing so again would be perfectly in keeping with his lyrical style. Based on the above (and the fact that I think it would make an awesome title), my best guess at what the next album will be called is

"Out of Eden"

Richard Dawkins also has a book entitled "River out of Eden", of which Tuomas is, at the very least, very likely aware, and so it is reasonable to assume that he's familiar with the phrase. And given that he already almost named one album after a Dawkins book, he could do it again..."

That's a great theory - I like it, and it would fit all the potential themes that have appeared / been referred to in relation to the new album so far (Black Mirror, Steampunk and Babylon). My thoughts were going in a similar direction but were a bit more dark-ish in terms of a potential album title:

Netherworld

(which is seemingly also part of the Sumerian mythology, though I also wondered whether the background in the tour poster has some bearing)

There is actually also a connection to Carl Sagan who researched Sumerian history when preparing a scientific article on Direct Contact among Galactic Civilizations which later informed his bestseller book "Contact" (which I'm sure Tuomas must have read as an outspoken fan of Sagan).

PS: I get the feeling that this whole cuneiform thing is kind of one of Tuomas's crossword puzzles.

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Well, I like Netherworld or The First Eden better than Out of Eden, but still... I was kinda expecting something more from them. Something more Nightwish-y, as others said.

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Whlst I agree that Out of Eden is a little too... shallow, for lack of a better word, and I think it's highly likely that Eden will be involved in the title somewhere, this is purely speculation :) I remember back when Imaginaerum was still being written; the major theory that most people had was that the album would be called Wind Embrace, which would really have sucked :P.

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Can someone explain to me what a "Nightwishy" title is? For a band with song titles as diverse as "Bye Bye Beautiful" and ""Edema Ruh", I think basically any name could fit. 

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Yeah, I don't know what all of you are talking about Nightwish titles being so deep. Once, Wishmaster, Century Child... What do you find so profound in them? I like Endless Forms Most Beautiful as a title, and these speculations would fit with that pretty well. But then again, it's purely speculation, we will know better maybe in a month and who knows, the speculations might be completely wrong.

6 hours ago, The_Black_Rose said:

 the album would be called Wind Embrace, which would really have sucked :P.

Really? I didn't follow Nightwish back then so I haven't heard about this. Where did that speculation come from? Was there such speculations about EFMB? :D 

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I mean, literally the only truly creative one is Dark Passion Play due to it having a cute double meaning.

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Nightwish-y =/= deep and/or creative. I just feel "Eden" to be too... direct, I think. I'd see something something more figurative.

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I just hope they don't go all Therion in their lyrics with this Summerian stuff. 

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Nice pic! Floor and Tuomas look great, the rest I think could put a little more effort on the looks, but it' fine

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Awesome picture.

1 hour ago, Baki said:

I just hope they don't go all Therion in their lyrics with this Summerian stuff. 

I doubt they're going to get cheesy with it (that being said, I love Therion).

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I like their new style, and especially the new mastermind-ish look of Tuomas. He now looks very mature and serious but with passion and motivation. 

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3 hours ago, Speckofdust said:

New band promo pic

https://m.facebook.com/nightwish/photos/a.10150185750375068/10162655090935068/?type=3&source=48

So the ancient/primal symbols appears on Floor jacket too ;)

Great picture indeed. It's my favourite since that 2012 photoshoot with red background, it was the first with Floor if I remember correctly. Both Tuomas and Marko look younger on this new one too.

Mods, shouldn't we already pin this thread on the top of the General Nightwish section? I assume most of the users are interested to discuss the upcoming album rather than EFMB. And it's easier to reach the thread this way too. ;)

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1 hour ago, GhostHell said:

Mods, shouldn't we already pin this thread on the top of the General Nightwish section? I assume most of the users are interested to discuss the upcoming album rather than EFMB. And it's easier to reach the thread this way too. 

Done!

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5 hours ago, Baki said:

I just hope they don't go all Therion in their lyrics with this Summerian stuff. 

“And then [historical figure] did [something that does not fit the metrum of this melody]. He was [questionable claim] la la la etc.”

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2 hours ago, OneOfTheLostOnes said:

“And then [historical figure] did [something that does not fit the metrum of this melody]. He was [questionable claim] la la la etc.”

That's definitely Son of The Sun lyric structure! *captian obvious flies off*

I don't think he'll go Therion, I mean, he wrote Tutankhamen and Pharaoh Sails to Orion using more complex sentences and more richful vocabulary.

(I love Therion, but I'm aware that Tuomas is better at songwriting :P )
 

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I'll take a stab at album title guesses.

Descent of Man

The cuneiform symbols stand for Man, Woman and Heaven, so there must be some relationship to Babylonian myths/legends. Pretty much all religious narratives talk about man's ascent towards Godliness/Godhood/Heaven/Immortality (e.g. just look at many of the New Agey beliefs swimming around about how humanity is "ascending" in consciousness - even non-religious people talk about salvation and immortality through technological means). Maybe that's the meaning these symbols are trying to convey? Man is continually looking towards the heavens, towards the Gods, towards technology for his immortality and salvation, and in doing so he ignores what he already has before him - sometimes inviting his own destruction in the process.

Perhaps Nightwish wants to counter the ascension narrative - that man isn't ascending towards anything, but is actually descending into the abyss. We know there is likelihood they will be exploring apocalyptic themes, and what better Babylonian tale than the epic of Gilgamesh as a parallel. We will probably see extensive use of the Gilgamesh/biblical Genesis narratives as analogies (i.e. Man's dawn and his demise). Read the summary of the Gilgamesh tale - after his futile quest for immortality, Gilgamesh "comes to understand that the most important thing in life is to have lived and loved well." - i.e. accept mortality and live a good life. Sounds like Nightwish philosophy 101 to me.

If we are continuing with some of the themes from EFMB, perhaps Tuomas will continue taking album title inspiration from Darwin's works. It would be a nice bit of word play, both descent in the sense of evolutionary descent and descent in the sense of a descent into the abyss because of our collective folly - an inversion of the "ascent of man" narrative.

 

N.B. An additional thought - they asked David Attenborough to participate? He commissioned a series for the BBC called "The Ascent of Man"

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15 hours ago, Pendulum said:

I'll take a stab at album title guesses.

Descent of Man

The cuneiform symbols stand for Man, Woman and Heaven, so there must be some relationship to Babylonian myths/legends. Pretty much all religious narratives talk about man's ascent towards Godliness/Godhood/Heaven/Immortality (e.g. just look at many of the New Agey beliefs swimming around about how humanity is "ascending" in consciousness - even non-religious people talk about salvation and immortality through technological means). Maybe that's the meaning these symbols are trying to convey? Man is continually looking towards the heavens, towards the Gods, towards technology for his immortality and salvation, and in doing so he ignores what he already has before him - sometimes inviting his own destruction in the process.

Perhaps Nightwish wants to counter the ascension narrative - that man isn't ascending towards anything, but is actually descending into the abyss. We know there is likelihood they will be exploring apocalyptic themes, and what better Babylonian tale than the epic of Gilgamesh as a parallel. We will probably see extensive use of the Gilgamesh/biblical Genesis narratives as analogies (i.e. Man's dawn and his demise). Read the summary of the Gilgamesh tale - after his futile quest for immortality, Gilgamesh "comes to understand that the most important thing in life is to have lived and loved well." - i.e. accept mortality and live a good life. Sounds like Nightwish philosophy 101 to me.

If we are continuing with some of the themes from EFMB, perhaps Tuomas will continue taking album title inspiration from Darwin's works. It would be a nice bit of word play, both descent in the sense of evolutionary descent and descent in the sense of a descent into the abyss because of our collective folly - an inversion of the "ascent of man" narrative.

 

N.B. An additional thought - they asked David Attenborough to participate? He commissioned a series for the BBC called "The Ascent of Man"

This is specially interesting because "The Descent of Man" is actually one of Darwin's works. According to Wikipedia this is sort of a follow-up to "The Origin of Species" which contains the quote that was used for the EFMB album title.

So, what if Tuomas thought of, in a way, honoring Darwin's work by mimicking the titles to each of his books?

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20 hours ago, Pendulum said:

I'll take a stab at album title guesses.

Descent of Man

The cuneiform symbols stand for Man, Woman and Heaven, so there must be some relationship to Babylonian myths/legends. Pretty much all religious narratives talk about man's ascent towards Godliness/Godhood/Heaven/Immortality (e.g. just look at many of the New Agey beliefs swimming around about how humanity is "ascending" in consciousness - even non-religious people talk about salvation and immortality through technological means). Maybe that's the meaning these symbols are trying to convey? Man is continually looking towards the heavens, towards the Gods, towards technology for his immortality and salvation, and in doing so he ignores what he already has before him - sometimes inviting his own destruction in the process.

Perhaps Nightwish wants to counter the ascension narrative - that man isn't ascending towards anything, but is actually descending into the abyss. We know there is likelihood they will be exploring apocalyptic themes, and what better Babylonian tale than the epic of Gilgamesh as a parallel. We will probably see extensive use of the Gilgamesh/biblical Genesis narratives as analogies (i.e. Man's dawn and his demise). Read the summary of the Gilgamesh tale - after his futile quest for immortality, Gilgamesh "comes to understand that the most important thing in life is to have lived and loved well." - i.e. accept mortality and live a good life. Sounds like Nightwish philosophy 101 to me.

If we are continuing with some of the themes from EFMB, perhaps Tuomas will continue taking album title inspiration from Darwin's works. It would be a nice bit of word play, both descent in the sense of evolutionary descent and descent in the sense of a descent into the abyss because of our collective folly - an inversion of the "ascent of man" narrative.

 

N.B. An additional thought - they asked David Attenborough to participate? He commissioned a series for the BBC called "The Ascent of Man"

This seems like some solid and well-researched guesswork! I can totally see or something similar being the album title. Very interesting, thank you.

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Ascent or Descent depending on your perspective!

Curious how mythology and religion could/would fit with the steampunk idea. I think of this as alternative history, a twist on historical fiction, rather than sci-fi but it could still be used as a cautionary tale for our own times.

As for religion vs science I feel putting them in opposition as though by definition and a pure "rationalist" perspective of life is too simplistic - this given I am very much in the scientific camp. But choosing your values and how you will live is good advice even if there may be no future reward in another world.

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12 minutes ago, GreatEye said:

The album name initials are B U

What's this based on? Or am I being thick and missing a joke 😅

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