GhostHell

The Upcoming Nightwish Album

677 posts in this topic

IMO, Nightwish need to flip the table and either completely ditch the symphonic influences, or dial them back considerably. IMO, they're overstayed their welcome at this point, and largely hold the band back. Let Empuu, Marco and Floor loose, and write a damn good metal album, instead of writing yet another 'symphonic concept album'. I want to hear Wishmaster-era speed/power metal, especially with Floor and Marco on vocal duties. I'd love to see Marco do a Tarot-esque song on the album and allow Empuu to show off more.

Yet another 'symphonic album' would be a big disappointment for me, and would show, in my eyes, that Nightwish is struggling with the same issues as Kamelot with regards to stagnant songwriting.

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I don't quite get the expectation/hope from so many on here that the next album should/will have Floor growling.  This is Nightwish, where female vocals have never been of that form, so why expect the band to change it now?  She sounds simply stunning on EFMB, more of the same for me please!

And in reply to the previous post, dropping the symphonic sound would be a major negative for me - it's one of the things that makes the band so special IMHO.

But hey, we're all different, and we won't all be happy!!!

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People who ask Nightwish, one of the biggest symphonic metal bands to not be symphonic, I'm sorry but that will not happen. Nightish hasnt been a power metal band for about 15 years now and they only were that because they couldnt use a real orchestra back then. It's ok to not like it but it's a fact and the next album will almost certainly have a full orchestra. Seriously, i dont get it. It's like asking a Folk Metal band to cut down on the flutes and pipes and be more metal.  It makes no sense.

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5 hours ago, Essexboyinwales said:

I don't quite get the expectation/hope from so many on here that the next album should/will have Floor growling.  This is Nightwish, where female vocals have never been of that form, so why expect the band to change it now?  She sounds simply stunning on EFMB, more of the same for me please!

...

I'm not expecting growls because after all they're not my cup of tea (though she sounded great on ReVamp's Wild Card) but the same as EFMB??? Sorry, but eww, thanks but please not. In my opinion she sounds almost boring is most of the songs.

Now, I definitely want more of this voice:

I'm also fine with very little Marco :P I would love a slow song like The Islander led by him, or very small special moments like in the original Ever Dream. But nowadays I almost can't stand his "metal" voice so that could be considered a plus for EFMB :P

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10 hours ago, Essexboyinwales said:

I don't quite get the expectation/hope from so many on here that the next album should/will have Floor growling.  This is Nightwish, where female vocals have never been of that form, so why expect the band to change it now?  She sounds simply stunning on EFMB, more of the same for me please!

Yeah, but the female vocals had always had a classical element to them until DPP, and they'd been pretty much entirely classical until Century Child, and then if you think back to Tuomas's original conception for Nightwish, the female vocals were expected to be much softer and lighter to fit with the acoustic folk nature of the project. The vocals have changed with the skills and the comfort areas of the different vocalists, and with a singer as varied and with as much power and potential aggression in her voice as Floor, I think people were hoping to hear that change reflected too. Plus, Nightwish have utilised harsh or aggressive vocals before (Wilska's appearances on Oceanborn and 10th Man Down, some of Marco's vocals on e.g. Slaying the Dreamer), it's just it has usually been left to Marco or guest singers because that kind of singing wasn't Tarja or Anette's area. I'm not sure that I'm keen to see growls used on every song or anything but I'd certainly like to hear Floor get to do more of the heavy lifting with the more aggressive vocals. Plus, if they're going to do growls, it would be nice to actually have them audible rather than bury them in the background like on Yours Is An Empty Hope.

I think it's very unlikely that Nightwish will abandon the orchestra completely, I would definitely expect the next album to feature the orchestra again, but I do hope that they continue the path they seemed to start on EFMB of having the band return to more of a central focus and the orchestra being used to compliment the songs rather than being the centrepoint. To me, Nightwish reached the peak of their super-symphonic, soundtrack-esque style with "Imaginaerum", it would definitely be nice to see them start to build the band side of the sound back up a little more. But yeah, I think if you're hoping for the orchestra to go entirely you're going to be disappointed.

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8 hours ago, Imagineer said:

People who ask Nightwish, one of the biggest symphonic metal bands to not be symphonic, I'm sorry but that will not happen. Nightish hasnt been a power metal band for about 15 years now and they only were that because they couldnt use a real orchestra back then. It's ok to not like it but it's a fact and the next album will almost certainly have a full orchestra. Seriously, i dont get it. It's like asking a Folk Metal band to cut down on the flutes and pipes and be more metal.  It makes no sense.

I'm not asking they ditch it entirely, but they've largely hit the pinnacle of what they can do with an orchestra. EFMB was virtually perfect for me, and I don't think it can be topped by 'just another symphonic album'. Either Nightwish do the impossible and top EFMB with the best album in the genre, (I adore EFMB) or they flip the table and surprise us with something heavier. I've been a fan of them since DPP, and at one point, I revered Tarja. But as I've grown up, I've largely grown apathetic towards the opera schtick, and prefer to look at the instrumentalism. I legitimately can't stand Once at this point, when I used to listen to it daily. My personal reason for this, was the overuse of orchestra/orchestral elements at the expense of good instrumentalism. I'd be happy if they continued their current course, but dialed back the orchestras to a greater degree as they did between Imaginaerum/EFMB. 

If you want an example of what I'd like to see more of, Romanticide at Wacken would be a good choice. Still orchestral, but heavy as hell. Floor didn't even growl! Seriously, please keep Floor away from the growls, you don't compete with Marco.
 

 

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^ IMO, Floor is a better (I might even say "much better") aggressive singer than Marco. But if we're talking specifically about growling vocals, Marco doesn't really growl, at least not from what I've heard of his work - his more aggressive style is more high pitched, shouting or shrieking (I don't mean that in a bad way, but to me that's a different thing from growling).

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Marco definitely hasn't been growling for a long time, and currently his "heavy" voice sounds really crappy for me. Devil & The Deep Dark Ocean sounds reallllly weird the way he sings it now, so I think we should keep him away from that strange drunk-guy-at-the-bar-at-3-am style which is ruining all of his parts. Just give the man a break and let Floor do both the singing and the growling.

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I like Marco's voice but it's for more "theatrical" songs imo. I don't mind it in DATDOC but for more straightforward metal songs I also hope Floor will get to do some growls here and there.

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On 4/17/2018 at 0:00 PM, Essexboyinwales said:

I don't quite get the expectation/hope from so many on here that the next album should/will have Floor growling.  This is Nightwish, where female vocals have never been of that form, so why expect the band to change it now?  She sounds simply stunning on EFMB, more of the same for me please!

EFMB has the weakest and all around worst and most boring vocals by Floor ever. I would gladly hear her use her full potential and yes, also growls. As a metal head I (almost) never mind some growls... :P

But no, I don't want just growls from Floor. I also want some classical vocals and some more powerful stuff. Pretty much the worst case scenario would be that she would sound the same as on EFMB. For me the vocals were a downgrade from iRum, where Anette finally sounded good. 

On 4/17/2018 at 3:50 PM, Imagineer said:

Seriously, i dont get it. It's like asking a Folk Metal band to cut down on the flutes and pipes and be more metal.  It makes no sense.

Folk metal bands can become more metal without leaving any instruments. In the same way symphonic metal bands can become more metal with more (or the same) orchestra. In my opinion that's exactly what happened to Epica. The Holographic Principle has the biggest orchestra ever for them, but it also has heavier guitars, more growls etc. And of course it's not about being metal. Nightwish hasn't really been metal in a long time, but that doesn't matter if they make good music. EFMB wasn't good, let's hope that the next one will be.

I also wouldn't mind if they would try someone new to make the orchestral arrangements. That itself might give them a fresher and less stale sound

14 hours ago, planet_terror said:

Marco definitely hasn't been growling for a long time, and currently his "heavy" voice sounds really crappy for me. Devil & The Deep Dark Ocean sounds reallllly weird the way he sings it now, so I think we should keep him away from that strange drunk-guy-at-the-bar-at-3-am style which is ruining all of his parts. Just give the man a break and let Floor do both the singing and the growling.

Marco is pretty much my favorite Nightwish singer but I have to admit that he definitely doesn't sound as good anymore. But that's nothing unexpected, singer's voices tend to change when they age, and usually for the worse. And it doesn't help if the singer is smoking etc. But still, I would love to hear more Marco on the next album. He was badly underused  on EFMB, basically just a backing vocalist with one verse on Weak Fantasy.

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In some future NW song would be great some kind of dialogue with herself(Floor), with clean voice vs growls, or Marco with her. Something like Neurasthenia or Dance with the dragon (Dark Sarah)

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2 hours ago, Imaginarium said:

EFMB has the weakest and all around worst and most boring vocals by Floor ever. I would gladly hear her use her full potential and yes, also growls. As a metal head I (almost) never mind some growls... :P

I don't know all her other work (apart from with The God that is Arjen L), so can't compare, I just know I love her vocals on EFMB.

2 hours ago, Imaginarium said:

EFMB wasn't good

You're right: it was incredible:jester:

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I don't know all her other work (apart from with The God that is Arjen L), so can't compare, I just know I love her vocals on EFMB.

Then you have long road ahead, my friend.

No one comes close to Floor during her After Forever  times and EFMB does not show even 30% of what she can do, although she sounds good.

Just... she's Floor freakin' Jansen and EFMB, except The Greatest Show on Earth, doesn't give her much opportunities to let it loose the way she can and is known for.

That being said the album is far better than Once and DPP (both NW albums I loathe except few songs)

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3 hours ago, Imaginarium said:

EFMB has the weakest and all around worst and most boring vocals by Floor ever. I would gladly hear her use her full potential and yes, also growls. As a metal head I (almost) never mind some growls... :P

But no, I don't want just growls from Floor. I also want some classical vocals and some more powerful stuff. Pretty much the worst case scenario would be that she would sound the same as on EFMB. For me the vocals were a downgrade from iRum, where Anette finally sounded good. 

Folk metal bands can become more metal without leaving any instruments. In the same way symphonic metal bands can become more metal with more (or the same) orchestra. In my opinion that's exactly what happened to Epica. The Holographic Principle has the biggest orchestra ever for them, but it also has heavier guitars, more growls etc. And of course it's not about being metal. Nightwish hasn't really been metal in a long time, but that doesn't matter if they make good music. EFMB wasn't good, let's hope that the next one will be.

I also wouldn't mind if they would try someone new to make the orchestral arrangements. That itself might give them a fresher and less stale sound

 

Nope, Floor’s worst vocals (not because of her) can be found in Timo Tolki’s Avalon. How this man could call them Floor’s best vocals is beyond me!

And what you are saying is right. But I was talking about people who say that NW should drop the orchestra completely, not that they should become more metal. I do want some heavier songs on the next album.

 

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I wouldn't say Floor's worst vocals. That's not the right word to use for it, as it implies she sounded horrible. She sounded great, as usual. But... she did not sound her best. She did not reach her highest potential that we saw just so recently with "Wild Card" (I felt her vocals on there were some of her best).

What Tuomas should be able to do is what Arjen is so good at it, and that is pushing vocalists into crazy territories with amazing results. I really hope he gives her other albums a listen to hear for himself what she can do outside of his own music, and then get ideas on how to write around this instrument I feel he is not using to its full potential.

That's really one of the major things I want out of the next album. Nightwish has one of the (if not the best) vocalist in metal. Let her show everyone her stuff. :)

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3 hours ago, Imagineer said:

And what you are saying is right. But I was talking about people who say that NW should drop the orchestra completely, not that they should become more metal. I do want some heavier songs on the next album.

Oh yeah, sorry. I also don't understand why they should drop the orchestra. :) But in my opinion they should refresh the sound.

52 minutes ago, CenturyChild625 said:

What Tuomas should be able to do is what Arjen is so good at it, and that is pushing vocalists into crazy territories with amazing results. I really hope he gives her other albums a listen to hear for himself what she can do outside of his own music, and then get ideas on how to write around this instrument I feel he is not using to its full potential.

Yeah, Arjen is really good at pushing vocalists to their limits and complimenting their sound. Floor sounds great on Ayreon and for example Simone Simons has also made some of her best vocals on Ayreon. Nightwish could improve on that. Strangely enough, Marco has even worked as a vocal producer for Amorphis, and Tomi Joutsen's vocals are some of the best I've heard. Perhaps Marco could work more on vocal arrangements for Nightwish also?

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On 20/04/2018 at 1:41 PM, Imaginarium said:

Yeah, Arjen is really good at pushing vocalists to their limits and complimenting their sound. Floor sounds great on Ayreon and for example Simone Simons has also made some of her best vocals on Ayreon. Nightwish could improve on that. Strangely enough, Marco has even worked as a vocal producer for Amorphis, and Tomi Joutsen's vocals are some of the best I've heard. Perhaps Marco could work more on vocal arrangements for Nightwish also?

Let's not forget how good Marco's vocals were on TTOE - Arjen really does get the best from whoever he works with!

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Alright, I know this is silly and has been probably suggested before, but am I the only one who would like to hear a bit, even just one line in one song, of vocals, be it backing or main, from Emppu? Yeah it's a silly idea but I would love it, even just as a bit of a joke.

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I`d like to hear more keyboard from Tuomas, exploring more that instrument. Floor could sing normally, vocally speaking, and lyric. Better compositions than Endless Forms Most Beautiful ones. Orchestra is very cool, but it must not appear all the time. More keyboard from Tuomas, orchestra on the right dosage (like Troy`s instruments parts) and lyric and normal vocals from Floor.

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Are you all assuming that Tuomas doesn't suddenly decide to change direction and recruit a sax player or something else...............

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I know its cliche but I would really love for them to do more theatrical songs. I'm not talking Imaginaerum style, but like Devil and the Deep Dark Ocean. I never cared for the song before but when I heard it live with Floor I was really impressed and my first thought was that I want to see them do more of this.

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44 minutes ago, dragonprincess said:

No way Tuomas is going to hire a sax player. He will do that himself and then there will also be a five minute clarinet solo played by him. 

 

Hahaha.. tempted to link the old videos ;)

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What do I truly want from this album? Preferably to release before I die of boredom. Seriously though, why have Nightwish slowed down so much in terms of songwriting? Pretty much every other band in both their genre and out have released more albums/EP's since the turn of the decade, and have arguably released amongst the best work of their careers, even with massive line-up changes. Obviously there's always other bands I can listen to, but I've found myself listening to Nightwish less and less, where I once used to listen to them almost daily. Since DPP, we have been made to wait 4 and a half years, 3 and a half years, and now a likely 5 YEARS for any new material. The key point here is new material, not just new albums. Whereas many bands often release something out of the ordinary to tide over their fans if a new studio album might take longer, (see Epica and the AOT EP) Nightwish have left us high and dry. It's quite annoying, really.

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Sooo... I know they like to "keep it in the family", but I wouldn't mind if they let someone new do all the graphical stuff for the upcoming release. I think something fresh, rather than Toxic Angel's style, is due.

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I saw this article posted on one Nightwish Facebook page that I visit on a regular basis:

https://www.loudersound.com/news/nightwish-have-written-up-to-90-of-new-album

It's a few days old at this point and I'm surprised no one here has even posted the article yet.  It gives me at least a small amount of hope that the next album could be released before the end of 2019, but it will probably end up being a 2020 release instead.

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