Essexboyinwales

Thoughts of a relative newbie

17 posts in this topic

Listening to the magnificent Decades album has lead me to say the following.  It's just a perspective, and I know that it may irritate many on here, and I do understand why, but it's not meant to.  It's purely coming from my angle...

Relative newbie, as in I only got into the band in 2015, based on a recommendation for EFMB on the Marillion forum (for those who don't know, Marillion are a wonderful British prog/rock band still going strong after over 35 years, you should check them out!).  EFMB fairly quickly became one of my favourite albums of all time, and Imaginaerum is not far behind.  I bought the whole back catalogue and managed to get one of the last tickets for Wembley Arena, sitting right at the back, and of course it was a great show, captured beautifully on VOS.

Listening to Decades, I've realised that I really don't know the early albums.  DPP and Once are not too far behind the the most recent albums for me, but I failed to engage fully with the rest.  As such, listening to disc 2 of Decades is almost like listening to a new album all over again, as I hardly recognised most of the tracks on it (with the exception of GLS of course - if this was on disc 1 it would make it one of the finest discs ever made!).  Don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying disc 2, but I almost feel like I'm listening to a new band, and they're playing the kind of music I loved when I was a teenager.

I guess what I'm trying to say, as a 40-something year old who came to the band late, is that the later stuff is (to me) so much better: more inventive, more mature, more accessible to my ears, and so much better for the orchestrations, pipes and whistles.  Anyone who thinks that TGSOE is poor (and there are people on here who do), I can only think that you have loved the band from the start, and don't like the way band have progressed.  I totally get this, and we all just have to accept that we all like whichever bits of the band's music that we do, due to our own perspective on the band.

For what it's worth, I will very much be looking forward to hearing some of the older songs at Birmingham in December, especially if they include new orchestrations (as I have read).  I love the folkiness of the Nightwish demo, but I'm guessing that's pretty unlikely?.....

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I have been listening to them since 2004 and all I can say is I love how they have advanced. I don't think EFMB is their pinnacle, indeed I think it has many lows, probably Imaginaerum has some of the most interesting stuff for me. But I really enjoy the old stuff as it triggers nostalgia in me and that's what I fell in love with, but I also really love the new stuff as they keep on going and I love what they are doing.

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Oh, that pretty much sums up my feelings :S

Being a newbie (first record "Dark Passion Play" and massive lover of "Endless Forms Most Beautiful"), I feel pretty much the same, now that I listen to the back catalogue more intensely. I also struggle with some of the older lyrics, I am not quite sure what they are ... well, what they are about ?! :S - sorry

 

I am super excited how I will feel listening to Decades!

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I started listening in 2009, so one could say I am also a relative newbie, as the Tarja era was already history and the first Anette album was released by then. Dark Passion Play was how I first knew about Nightwish. Specifically, I think Amaranth was the first song I ever heard, though it's hard to be sure now.

Unlike you however, I did grow to love the earlier material. Honestly, Century Child is my favorite Nightwish album. I do understand what you mean by "more mature" and "more accessible to my ears", I think those things are true for the later albums. But I disagree about "more inventive". To me, every Nightwish album is "inventive". They're all very different from each other, and from any other music I've heard. Their earlier material may lyrically and musically not be of the same quality as the newer stuff, but I still love the atmosphere and energy in it.

I will admit to be in the same boat as @huginn&muninnthough: I have no clue what some of the older lyrics are about (first 2 albums). Judging by internet discussions about them though, I don't have to feel bad. Some really are rather obscure and people don't seem to agree on their meaning.

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Thanks for that perspective.

I discovered NW in 2006, so, all I had was Once and before. It was intense, deep, complex music (and Tarja on vocals) that brought me into NW. I hold it close.

I love their albums from DPP onward in their own way of course. But, I have always felt something was missing in the past 3 albums (and no, I don't mean Tarja :P). I know  bands evolve and change. I respect that NW isn't what it was in 2000, and will likely never be again. But, I also hope that some of the magic it had in its early days seeps back in a little. Sometimes something old, sounds like something new :) .

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Well, I also discovered NW in 2006, I was a little child back then :P But even so I loved them so much, I have many lovely memories. Not that I don't like how they have evolved; many of you know the reasons why I dislike EFMB, but they're still a good band! I mean, most of the old songs sound great in the Decades Tour (note that I said most of them :P). I really hope they bring back a bit of those songs' sound. The new style was awesome in DPP and Irum but not in EFMB (imo, of course).

Oh, and unlike what some of you said, I LOVE the old lyrics. Way better than the EFMB ones. They are so fresh, so full of love, fantasy, hope (until CC?)... Then I also liked their darker era's lyrics (CC to DPP). A few songs might been a bit egocentric (like TPATP) or even horny (WIHAA :P) but still, most of them are great. And Imaginaerum was perfect in every way.

I don't know, they have always been my favourite band and probably will continue being so: the first 7 albums are almost perfect and they have been what I've listened to literally my entire life. So well, I'm glad you understand why EFMB isn't my cup of tea. I'm almost sure I'll be happy with NW 9 (unless it's an EFMB 2.0 :P).

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Hi everybody! I was gonna create my own thread, but I thought this one would be appropriate for my first post. I'm in the same line of thought with the original post on this thread. I'm new to Nightwish as I bought the vehicle of spirit blu-ray on a whim. After watching each concert, I was completely blown away!!!  I've heard bits and pieces of their music before, but never took the time to really give them a fair listen. All I can say is that they won me over and are now one of my favorite bands of all time. The people on Dream Theater forums always highly recommended Nightwish, so I had to check them out. I'm working my way backwards through their catalog starting with EFMB. I absolutely love this album, and I think Floor Jansen is THE perfect fit for Nightwish!  I just saw them live in Portland Oregon April 8th and they were amazing. I'm really digging the Decades double disc set (which was a nice gift at the show). I'm really enjoying disc 2 and coming to really appreciate the Tarja era of the band. Floor is my personal favorite, but Tarja is amazing in her own right. The music is really good on the older stuff too, and it seems the Emppu had a little more freedom to play guitar solos, which he is so darn good!  I also like the Annette era as the song writing is great. Her voice is a little more pop sounding and is a bit of an odd fit in Nightwish, but she is still good. 

Sorry to get long winded, I'm late on the NW camp but I'm sure glad to be late than never. These guys are amazing!

 

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The point is that none of us right and none of us are wrong - we're all coming at the band from our own experience and perspective, and the way we feel about the band and the music relates to that for all of us.  We all love the band:)

I think.....

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It's weird how some of us (like me) probably instantly relate Nightwish to the dead boy and his whole universe, and for others (the newer fans) probably Nightwish relates more to the latest topics Tuomas has decided to work on the albums, huh? I mean, I have a tattoo that says "Ocean Soul" but that's probably not representative of Nightwish for a lot of fans, while for me Ocean Soul is literally the meaning of Nightwish.

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1 hour ago, planet_terror said:

It's weird how some of us (like me) probably instantly relate Nightwish to the dead boy and his whole universe, and for others (the newer fans) probably Nightwish relates more to the latest topics Tuomas has decided to work on the albums, huh? I mean, I have a tattoo that says "Ocean Soul" but that's probably not representative of Nightwish for a lot of fans, while for me Ocean Soul is literally the meaning of Nightwish.

You've lost me completely, thereby proving your point:yahoo:

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On 13/4/2018 at 1:10 PM, Essexboyinwales said:

You've lost me completely, thereby proving your point:yahoo:

Then I suggest you start listening to the catalogue and reading the lyrics carefully! :rofl:

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On 11/04/2018 at 3:25 PM, Essexboyinwales said:

Listening to the magnificent Decades album has lead me to say the following.  It's just a perspective, and I know that it may irritate many on here, and I do understand why, but it's not meant to.  It's purely coming from my angle...

Relative newbie, as in I only got into the band in 2015, based on a recommendation for EFMB on the Marillion forum (for those who don't know, Marillion are a wonderful British prog/rock band still going strong after over 35 years, you should check them out!).  EFMB fairly quickly became one of my favourite albums of all time, and Imaginaerum is not far behind.  I bought the whole back catalogue and managed to get one of the last tickets for Wembley Arena, sitting right at the back, and of course it was a great show, captured beautifully on VOS.

Listening to Decades, I've realised that I really don't know the early albums.  DPP and Once are not too far behind the the most recent albums for me, but I failed to engage fully with the rest.  As such, listening to disc 2 of Decades is almost like listening to a new album all over again, as I hardly recognised most of the tracks on it (with the exception of GLS of course - if this was on disc 1 it would make it one of the finest discs ever made!).  Don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying disc 2, but I almost feel like I'm listening to a new band, and they're playing the kind of music I loved when I was a teenager.

I guess what I'm trying to say, as a 40-something year old who came to the band late, is that the later stuff is (to me) so much better: more inventive, more mature, more accessible to my ears, and so much better for the orchestrations, pipes and whistles.  Anyone who thinks that TGSOE is poor (and there are people on here who do), I can only think that you have loved the band from the start, and don't like the way band have progressed.  I totally get this, and we all just have to accept that we all like whichever bits of the band's music that we do, due to our own perspective on the band.

For what it's worth, I will very much be looking forward to hearing some of the older songs at Birmingham in December, especially if they include new orchestrations (as I have read).  I love the folkiness of the Nightwish demo, but I'm guessing that's pretty unlikely?.....

To me, Oceanborn/Wishmaster was the peak of the band in terms of raw instrumentalism (there's a reason most metal fans I've met who hate Nightwish still respect Oceanborn as the album that saved power metal). Century Child I consider forgettable, and with the exception of parts of some songs, I despise Once. I'm probably the only person here who genuinely prefer Anette over late-era Tarja. I find DPP a great album to introduce to newer fans, as it's still Nightwish, but I've been told that Tarja's voice is grating and hard to get into by newer fans I've introduced. Also, The Islander is just a good song, period. I've had folk fans I know commend the song as a damn good example.

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1 hour ago, CalebFaustWolfgang said:

I'm probably the only person here who genuinely prefer Anette over late-era Tarja. I find DPP a great album to introduce to newer fans, as it's still Nightwish, but I've been told that Tarja's voice is grating and hard to get into by newer fans I've introduced. Also, The Islander is just a good song, period. I've had folk fans I know commend the song as a damn good example.

No, you're not :D I also prefer DPP and IRum to the last two albums with Tarja (even if I love CC and I find Once very relaxing when I need to calm down). And I'm sure we're not the only ones either!!

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Well I got into Nightwish just before last Christmas by what might be the strangest route of all.   I had been taking a rare excursion to YouTube to listen to covers of old Fleetwood Mac songs and saw in the side bar "Finlandia (Jean Sibelius Cover)".   Now as it happens Sibelius is perhaps my favourite classical composer and Finlandia is wonderful stuff so I clicked in, found a bloke playing some sort of celtic pipes with a rock band behind him which sounded good and I clicked on to be initially astonished by  Floor's vocals and  then by the songs themselves.

I bought EFMB, then Storytime Showtime and VoS all of which have had a lot of play in the last three months and then this last week got DPP and Once.   There is a problem though that I know the live versions of a lot of these and it means that some of the highpoints of the albums are taken away because you think you would rather be listening to the live (TPATP, GLS obviously, but several others too) and I'm so so sure they will as much play, though there are some great tracks that I hadn't heard before or only seen a bad live video.

 

 

Edited by Risky
typo

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On 11.04.2018 at 4:25 PM, Essexboyinwales said:

Listening to the magnificent Decades album has lead me to say the following.  It's just a perspective, and I know that it may irritate many on here, and I do understand why, but it's not meant to.  It's purely coming from my angle...

Relative newbie, as in I only got into the band in 2015, based on a recommendation for EFMB on the Marillion forum (for those who don't know, Marillion are a wonderful British prog/rock band still going strong after over 35 years, you should check them out!).  EFMB fairly quickly became one of my favourite albums of all time, and Imaginaerum is not far behind.  I bought the whole back catalogue and managed to get one of the last tickets for Wembley Arena, sitting right at the back, and of course it was a great show, captured beautifully on VOS.

Listening to Decades, I've realised that I really don't know the early albums.  DPP and Once are not too far behind the the most recent albums for me, but I failed to engage fully with the rest.  As such, listening to disc 2 of Decades is almost like listening to a new album all over again, as I hardly recognised most of the tracks on it (with the exception of GLS of course - if this was on disc 1 it would make it one of the finest discs ever made!).  Don't get me wrong, I'm really enjoying disc 2, but I almost feel like I'm listening to a new band, and they're playing the kind of music I loved when I was a teenager.

I guess what I'm trying to say, as a 40-something year old who came to the band late, is that the later stuff is (to me) so much better: more inventive, more mature, more accessible to my ears, and so much better for the orchestrations, pipes and whistles.  Anyone who thinks that TGSOE is poor (and there are people on here who do), I can only think that you have loved the band from the start, and don't like the way band have progressed.  I totally get this, and we all just have to accept that we all like whichever bits of the band's music that we do, due to our own perspective on the band.

For what it's worth, I will very much be looking forward to hearing some of the older songs at Birmingham in December, especially if they include new orchestrations (as I have read).  I love the folkiness of the Nightwish demo, but I'm guessing that's pretty unlikely?.....

It's cool, I don't think anyone here's gonna bash you for your opinion... but, boy, are they gonna disagree with it (as you've already seen :D ).

What can really be said about this? Even if myself and person X started following the band with the same album, we're probably still approaching it with such drastically different experiences, likes, dislikes, etc. that we're probably gonna disagree on almost everything.

I think what we can objectively say is that there's always gonna be a difference between an album masterminded by a 19-year-old kid with pretty bad English who has to borrow money from his dad to buy an instrument and who makes the album by gathering 'round a bunch of his school buddies, and one masterminded by a guy who has the full of confidence of a record label, who has access to some of the best instruments, orchestra's etc. that money can buy.

Everything from here on out is a question of preference; I've said it a bunch of times here already, but to me "Alpenglow" and "Our Decades in the Sun" fully justice EFMB's existence, but the other stuff I can take or leave.

That said, as someone who's listened aggressively to all of the NW albums, I can absolutely see how it might be jarring to go from those first albums, which are mystical, fantastic (as in: belonging to the fantasy genre), dare I say... religious? ... and the new stuff, which to me personally is a bit, I dunno, like someone telling me "See this blade of grass? Ain't it amazing to think about how it got there? Well, tough cookies, but we're all gonna die... see this painting here? Beautiful, innit? Well, we're still gonna die... Mom and dad? I love you, y'know that right? Well, we're totally still gonna die, so yeah..." - I mean, not everybody's gonna like those two things, and the likelihood of your not liking it increases if you're not eased into this drastic change in, shall we say, outlook on life by the passage of time. 

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I remember when they announced their new singer Annette and DPP back in 2006-2007 I was so pissed 😤 I used to said things like “now they are -not good-  I hate it” 😂😂  I was 14-15 years old teen. 

Nowadays I look in the past and I laugh of myself. 

I think there’s not a single Nightwish  album I don’t love ❤️ , is my soul band. And I have all the albums in my room including the decades earbook.

i feel like all the albums are very different but all of them are so good. I always will love the most the original band but anette’s era and floor’s era are so damn good too. I will follow them no matter what.

 

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Yeah. I got into them very recently and the newer stuff is better, from my perspective. Anything that they’ve retreaded from before is executed better the second or third time around, so having not spent a longer time with the older stuff, the impression is better for later work.

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