Marius

Decades World Tour 2018

2,465 posts in this topic

17 hours ago, Ahasverus said:

Told in the most boring, bland, predictable way possible. It's like listening to cosmos. 

You love hating it so much, it’s almost funny

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18 hours ago, Ahasverus said:

Told in the most boring, bland, predictable way possible. It's like listening to cosmos. 

You are like the guy tweeting from the District of Columbia.

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How can somebody dislike TGSOE? I'll never understand it. And, sorry, but the reasons I have read here just sound ludicrous. God Save TGSOE!

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Meh. I don't hate TGSOE. I feel Indifferent about it, contrary to their other epics, which I like. TGSOE isn't bad or anything, but it goes on and on without a highlight. It's just not exciting to listen to.

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Ah, I didn't know. But what I don't understand is why so many forum members feel the need to say they don't like it or that it's bland or boring. There are a few NW songs I don't like but I don't feel the need to air it once and again as if I wanted to convince the world that I'm right :huh:

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^ My personal theory is that the "epic" songs tend to attract more comments generally, and they also tend to often be held up as "masterpieces" and "album highlights" and "best song ever", hence why they also attract more criticism from those members that don't like them. So for example above - Symphoniker goes to TGSOE as an example of epic storytelling/ great lyrics from EFMB, so Ahasverus, who doesn't like the song, responds accordingly. Or why "Poet and the Pendulum" probably has more negative posts about it than, say "Master Passion Greed" - the former gets talked about more, and no-one (or, certainly far fewer people) are holding MPG up as a masterpiece.

Personally, I don't think TGSOE is either terrible or one of NW's best songs, it's got some nice parts but it's overlong and drags in parts - the intro and the last two sections especially. And lyrics wise - I'm not sure that I agree that Tuomas made better lyrics when he was miserable. Maybe the more "science-y" lyrics aren't exactly amongst his best work, but I'd much rather have lyrics like "Elan" and "My Walden" than, say "Today in the year of our lord 2005....". And this is coming from someone who largely found EFMB underwhelming.

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Writing about pain and misery is easier. People tend to connect with sad lyrics more effectively than with happier ones, because they sound more genuine. It's the same with movies. Comedies are not usually awarded with oscars, but if you make a movie about the holocaust you have plenty of chances to get quite a few. Even The List of Schindler, which I don't think is a good movie at all (please, don't kill me) got multiple Academy Awards because it depicts a tragic story. Yes, I like old NW too, but I have had enough of it, I really want more Elan or TGSOE.

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Misery is overrated, it only connects with those who are already sad or just want to be so. I find it great, that Holopainen finally seems to be genuinely happy with what he does, I would not want him to just go on a sad, self-pitying trip just to please a margin of fans; like either was possible anyway.

I found EMFB’s lyrics to be no bit less genuine than those of any other album; for all the cheesiness some people see in them (like that was always bad) they’re atleast nowhere near the Century-Child-level of cheesy.

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The difference is that CC was mostly romantic, romance without cheese is heartless. Now, in EFMB there's a different kind of cheese. We're talking about science. The thing is, I think the lyrics on EFMB aren't romantic enough for me (in the classical, XIX century sense). They are somewhere in between scientific divulgation and fantastic metaphors. As I said, I think there are some really good moments here and there in the record, but they're often killed by lyrics that, to my ears, are clunky. And I feel like he's repeating pretty much the same concepts all through the album: the planet Earth/Solar System wanders through space, we're on there so we're travelling, we are tiny and apparently worthless but we're life forms so we're a wonder of nature, and one day we'll all die and the journey of all species will end. This kind of stuff, no matter how cool and true, is nothing new, and the way he puts it is too derivative of Sagan's work, I feel like there isn't much more that Tuomas has added to Sagan's reasonings. He hasn't gone further, he's giving me pretty much nothing new, and I have already processed all that awe he talks about. I think that my own reasonings about space and the place of life in the universe have already gone further that Tuomas', because he's just repeating those basic concepts through a bunch of allegories that are nothing more than nice.
I really like the part of 'TGSOE' where he says 'Man, he took his time in the Sun / Had a dream to understand / A single grain of sand' but the rest is a bit meh. There's a lot of namedropping, some concepts are just periphrasis (shiny rocks/giant mushroom clouds? jeez).
I can't help but to compare 'TGSOE' to Tori Amos' 'Bang', which was released in late 2017. She also says the song was inspired by Sagan's work and tackles pretty much the very same subject as TGSOE. She says:

Bang went the gun on their tongue
Word crucifixion toward immigrants shunned
Immigrants that's who we all are
'Cause we're all made of stars
You said to them
Oh, yes you did

Bang went the universe
Hydrogen lusting for helium's burst
A mighty sun's dance of death
Exploding Super Nova
One story's end
Seeds another to begin

Then the Heavens opened
And then I heard voices
Joined in Hosannas
Breathlessly I saw your star

So bright it blinded me
I had to shield my eyes

And later she goes:

Can't they see, he said to me
That we all are molecular machines
Goals and dreams
All I wanna be is the very best machine I can be
Oxygen and carbon
Part of our molecular machine
Goals and dreams
All I wanna be is the very best machine I can be

You see that there is a dialogue here? No matter how technically better is Floor as a singer, no matter how preachy can be Tori's lyrics sometimes, how rushed the Bang lyrics are (she wrote it when the booklet was already being printed) I feel like Bang has a narrative while TGSOE feels like a mess.
In most of the songs in CC, Tuomas is talking to himself or to someone else, while in most songs in EFMB to me the lyrics feel detached, like a sort of poetic textbook that sometimes says 'we' but sometimes goes neutral, or the same 'we' becomes 'they'. I think the problem might be that the POV in the lyrics is incoherent. 

I also don't think it is true that sad lyrics are easier to relate to than happy lyrics. It's more likely that people clings to music more often when they're sad to find comfort, but happy songs are relatable too. We are the Champions is not a sad song, I mean.

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22 hours ago, The Name Of The Wind said:

Meh. I don't hate TGSOE. I feel Indifferent about it, contrary to their other epics, which I like. TGSOE isn't bad or anything, but it goes on and on without a highlight. It's just not exciting to listen to.

It's grown on me a bit, but it damn sure is no Beauty of the Beast or Fantasmic.

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If sad lyrics were the only relatable ones, we wouldn't have thrash or power metal. In fact, there wouldn't be any heavy metal at all....

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Back to the topic guys. There are special threads for EFMB and old albums on the Nightwish section. 

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So are they gonna publish the rest of European dates, or what? 

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On 4/5/2018 at 9:48 PM, Ahasverus said:

More like devolving

in YOUR opinion. Funny thing is that I don't think the artists creating these works are content with doing things the same. That's what creativity is. If things remained static - which apparently is what you wish - then there would be six albums worth of stuff that sounded like AFF.

PS:  "Evolving" as a response was intended to be a witty one-word comeback. Lighten up, and stop hating the band, already.
 

On 8/5/2018 at 5:58 PM, The Name Of The Wind said:

Meh. I don't hate TGSOE. I feel Indifferent about it, contrary to their other epics, which I like. TGSOE isn't bad or anything, but it goes on and on without a highlight. It's just not exciting to listen to.

For you. For others, it's a damn fine song. I love it.

So now what? Does the band have to stall, cease creativity, and produce formulaic stuff that sounds like the material YOU like, or move forward and create new material that maybe neither of us like,, but others do?

Here's the thing. Don't like it? Don't invest money or time. I am growing tired of wading through the negative commentary on a *freaking fan website.*

Damnit, if you want Holopainen to be depressed and all, so he writes the lyrics you want, make him read every post on this board. Hell, that would make him suicidal.

Posts merged. Please do not double post if your previous post is less than two weeks old. -Damián

 

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This week the European tour starts. Do you think they will start every show like they did in the US? I assume it will be more grandiose and impressive, considering most of the shows will be in open air festivals / big arenas.

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16 hours ago, Moving Pictures said:



Damnit, if you want Holopainen to be depressed and all, so he writes the lyrics you want, make him read every post on this board. Hell, that would make him suicidal.

 

He'd probably just laugh or roll his eyes at how ridiculous some of it is...

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10 hours ago, Moving Pictures said:

in YOUR opinion. Funny thing is that I don't think the artists creating these works are content with doing things the same. That's what creativity is. If things remained static - which apparently is what you wish - then there would be six albums worth of stuff that sounded like AFF.

PS:  "Evolving" as a response was intended to be a witty one-word comeback. Lighten up, and stop hating the band, already.
 

For you. For others, it's a damn fine song. I love it.

So now what? Does the band have to stall, cease creativity, and produce formulaic stuff that sounds like the material YOU like, or move forward and create new material that maybe neither of us like,, but others do?

Here's the thing. Don't like it? Don't invest money or time. I am growing tired of wading through the negative commentary on a *freaking fan website.*

Damnit, if you want Holopainen to be depressed and all, so he writes the lyrics you want, make him read every post on this board. Hell, that would make him suicidal.

Posts merged. Please do not double post if your previous post is less than two weeks old. -Damián

 

Honestly, I thinkt that EFMB is very safe musically. That's why I was disappointed with it. I've heard all the elements before. Still, I don't hate the band or EFMB. I simply feel indifferent about the album. Therefore, I don't listen to it often. I also don't say that EFMB is safe very often. I've done that maybe 10 times since its release. 

 I still have hopes for the next album though, because often the first album with a new vocalist is very safe, and the second album is better. 

Back on topic, I second @Baki's question. When are rest of the European dates released? I want to know if I can see the band in Copenhagen or in Hamburg. 

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13 hours ago, Moving Pictures said:

in YOUR opinion. Funny thing is that I don't think the artists creating these works are content with doing things the same. That's what creativity is. If things remained static - which apparently is what you wish - then there would be six albums worth of stuff that sounded like AFF.
 

Defending EFMB with that argument?? :P The problem is that it is the same as before. New members, different lyrical content, but many songs seem to have been done before.

2 hours ago, The Name Of The Wind said:

I still have hopes for the next album though, because often the first album with a new vocalist is very safe, and the second album is better.

Agree with that. Just look at DPP and IRum, there's a big difference.

Back to topic, I wonder if they rehearsed some other songs during this short break. As far as I remember, the song list we saw was overall nice (though not very clear, frankly I don't remember). Still waiting for something more from the pre-CC era, it's a great opportunity.

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Do you think there's any chance of a live album and/or blu-ray from this tour?  I tend to listen mostly in the car at the moment and VoS+STST(correct abbreviation?) tends to be my preference over the studio albums.  Also quite a few of there tracks are likely to be pretty rare on the set list in future tours.

Or is there an issue with having a third live release with Floor before the second studio release?  

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1 hour ago, Risky said:

Do you think there's any chance of a live album and/or blu-ray from this tour?  I tend to listen mostly in the car at the moment and VoS+STST(correct abbreviation?) tends to be my preference over the studio albums.  Also quite a few of there tracks are likely to be pretty rare on the set list in future tours.

Or is there an issue with having a third live release with Floor before the second studio release?  

Same here, mostly with Imaginaerum songs, I rather them with Floor's voice.

I don't think they'll release a live album for this tour. It seems to me that they want to keep it short and simple. There's not even interviews about it to promote the tour. But I do hope we get something, a pro shot from one of the upcoming festivals at least.

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If we got a chance to any live video release, it would be from Hartwall Areena, WOA or Lahti. I think that the first option is the most possible.

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Someone asked Ewo if I remember correctly and he said they are thinking about it. I definiely want one! I don't care if it's the third one in a row, this tour needs a live album!

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Honestly, I think it would be very short sighted of the band to release VOS and STST only one tour apart, given that several tracks appear on both sets of releases (in fact there's some that appear twice on VOS alone) and then choose NOT to release a live DVD of this tour when many of the songs have never been performed with Floor, and others have never been included on any of their live DVDs full stop, and most of the songs will probably be shelved again in favour of new tracks on their next tour (understandable, as that will be in support of an album). It will be particularly vexing if they skip this tour but make a DVD of the next tour, as I imagine we'll see a lot of the Imaginaerum/ EFMB tour songs rearing their heads again - surely that would be the one to skip? I'm not saying it has to be a VOS level production, but at the very least a live CD from this tour would be something.

The band's attitude towards this tour seems a bit odd- on  the one hand, as you say, there haven't been a huge amount of interviews promoting the tour, they're skipping out on countries like Australia etc. that they normally visit, and they seem very non-committal about the idea of filming a live DVD, which sort of implies that this was intended to be a small affair, possibly to placate fans and/or the record label during the between-albums gap. On the other hand, they've recorded brand new orchestral backing tracks for most of the old songs (that can't have come cheap), designed new animated backing screens for most of the same songs, and they're playing to some of their biggest ever venues -  they are doing an actual arena tour in the UK, something that they have NEVER done before - hell, they only just sold out their single arena show last time, which implies that they think on some level this could be their most successful tour yet. I mean, I suppose it's possible that they ARE intending on releasing a live DVD, but they don't want to confirm it until they've got the details finalised so they're staying vague, but still....

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I really hope they do a live disc. I would easily consider STST my favorite Nightwish album...

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