Marius

Decades World Tour 2018

2,465 posts in this topic

Not to mention the artist's own preference. What do I mean by that? Usually artists tend to like more their more recent songs, because, well, their recent and they are not as tired of playing them as planty of other songs or simply are most proud of them.  That's why 99% of all bands will always say "our most recent work is the best we've ever done". I'm pretty sure that even if EFMB has gained some criticisim, the band is really proud of that album and that is also why they play songs from that album.

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I really hope that they will add something new for the next shows. Maybe Pharaoh, Beauty and The Beast and other old golds. Don't forget, it's Decades Tour. Also, after this tour, they should put Ghost Love Score to sleep. Its enough. 

^ Are they tired of playing Beauty of the Beast for exp? Or White Night Fantasy?

Also, i am joining the no-full-backscreen army. Its too much. I hope they won't do that the next tour. 

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1 hour ago, GreatEye said:

 

^ Are they tired of playing Beauty of the Beast for exp? Or White Night Fantasy?

Also, i am joining the no-full-backscreen army. Its too much. I hope they won't do that the next tour. 

No, but they are surely as hell more proud of their newer children. They are still new. They are still babies.

And I've seen Nightwish live 5 times. Each one of them without a screen. While I must say they do not need it, I would gladly have screens. Please let me have that. Not all of us can enjoy that every time Nightwish goes on tour, you know? Again, selfish mentality "I've already seen Nightwish play that song countless of times/I've already seen Nightwish with a full production ten times! They should stop playing that song/they should stop using screens." Not all of us can enjoy certain songs and not all of us can enjoy Nightwish with screens every time.

 

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3 hours ago, Adrn_2810 said:

Ah, the inclusive philosophy of the metal community shines through again!

 

 

GTFO with that strawman argument.    I'm all for inclusivity as long as the music isn't trash.  Elan is trash and unfortunately it's the type of trash that attracts certain animals that wouldn't be lurking there in the first place if they couldn't smell it.

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How is it a strawman? You're literally proving his point. How about accepting and respecting that people like different things and that you're not the arbiter of good taste?

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2 hours ago, Symphoniker said:

And I've seen Nightwish live 5 times. Each one of them without a screen. While I must say they do not need it, I would gladly have screens. Please let me have that. Not all of us can enjoy that every time Nightwish goes on tour, you know? Again, selfish mentality "I've already seen Nightwish play that song countless of times/I've already seen Nightwish with a full production ten times! They should stop playing that song/they should stop using screens." Not all of us can enjoy certain songs and not all of us can enjoy Nightwish with screens every time.

 

Screens are not a problem per se. It's the fact that they've (Tuomas?) decided to make screens and animations almost the focal point of the show. Yes, we know that Tuomas sees Nightwish's songs almost as film music and he probably is more than happy if the audience is spending much of the show focusing on what happens on the screens while listening the songs almost as soundtracks. I on the other hand think it is a grave mistake (considering that the band management dreams (according to the new book!) of Nightwish becoming the king of metal scene after Maiden retire). The music and the show, with the band playing and interacting with each other, should always come first. It MUST come first. All the other things - animations and pyros - must be of secondary importance. But can anyone seriously argue that they are of secondary importance at the moment? No, they've totally gone with the "the more special effects, the better the show" approach. To me the show has gotten very 'plastic' on this tour, with the exception of few songs.

Just look at the 10th Man Down clip below, with the 'floating' keyboards and drums. It's ridiculous. That is NOT how a METAL concert should look like. I don't want to see a fricking Muse show while watching my beloved Nightwish. I Want My 90's Back :laugh::mad:

 

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2 hours ago, gabby said:

Screens are not a problem per se. It's the fact that they've (Tuomas?) decided to make screens and animations almost the focal point of the show. Yes, we know that Tuomas sees Nightwish's songs almost as film music and he probably is more than happy if the audience is spending much of the show focusing on what happens on the screens while listening the songs almost as soundtracks. I on the other hand think it is a grave mistake (considering that the band management dreams (according to the new book!) of Nightwish becoming the king of metal scene after Maiden retire). The music and the show, with the band playing and interacting with each other, should always come first. It MUST come first. All the other things - animations and pyros - must be of secondary importance. But can anyone seriously argue that they are of secondary importance at the moment? No, they've totally gone with the "the more special effects, the better the show" approach. To me the show has gotten very 'plastic' on this tour, with the exception of few songs.

Just look at the 10th Man Down clip below, with the 'floating' keyboards and drums. It's ridiculous. That is NOT how a METAL concert should look like. I don't want to see a fricking Muse show while watching my beloved Nightwish. I Want My 90's Back :laugh::mad:

 

Agree with most that you're saying. And boy oh boy that video looks hideous. Those "floating" drums and keyboards... :bad:

They should really concentrate more on their stage presence, not on getting more and more pyros and screens with every tour. They seem to just stand still most of the time. 

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4 hours ago, JRA said:

GTFO with that strawman argument.    I'm all for inclusivity as long as the music isn't trash.  Elan is trash and unfortunately it's the type of trash that attracts certain animals that wouldn't be lurking there in the first place if they couldn't smell it.

lol.

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I’m sorry but obviously screens are not gonna look good in YouTube videos where you can’t even see the band because of them. It’s different live, I really enjoyed them in 2016, it was only the big screen in the back, so maybe it won’t look as good now, but I’m certainly not gonna say I like them or not based on some YouTube videos.

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10 hours ago, Magnus said:

How is it a strawman? You're literally proving his point. How about accepting and respecting that people like different things and that you're not the arbiter of good taste?

It's a strawman because he thought I was acting like one of those fools who hates a band when they become "mainstream."  I have zero issue with a band becoming mainstream, as long as it's not done with bad music.  There's also nothing wrong with liking different things, but there is something wrong with trying to pass off certain different things as "metal."

 

9 hours ago, gabby said:

Screens are not a problem per se. It's the fact that they've (Tuomas?) decided to make screens and animations almost the focal point of the show. Yes, we know that Tuomas sees Nightwish's songs almost as film music and he probably is more than happy if the audience is spending much of the show focusing on what happens on the screens while listening the songs almost as soundtracks. I on the other hand think it is a grave mistake (considering that the band management dreams (according to the new book!) of Nightwish becoming the king of metal scene after Maiden retire).

 

Wait what?  If they want to do that they better start writing songs like Iron Maiden. :lol:  Also what new book?

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2 minutes ago, JRA said:

It's a strawman because he thought I was acting like one of those fools who hates a band when they become "mainstream."  I have zero issue with a band becoming mainstream, as long as it's not done with bad music.  There's also nothing wrong with liking different things, but there is something wrong with trying to pass off certain different things as "metal."

No, not what I was impying at all, you literally said, you want people driven away who like songs like Élan, hence the joke. I am fairly tired of having to explain such things to be honest.

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Nightwish certainly does not need the screens, I've already stated how I've seen them without screens, at clubs wtiht nothing but a backdrop and it was good. But people seem to forget THIS IS AN ANNIVERSARY TOUR. Yes., they're doing a show. But that's exactly the point. They're celebrating and that's why they're bringing evertyhing into each show. For years I dreamed about seeing Nightwish with all of their European equipment and now people don't want it? Come on! If your ADD is so big you can't focus on the band, well, that's not their problem. It's YOURS and you should get treatment for it.

And yes, I like Élan better than Crownless or most of the WM album. Sue me.

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I like me a good straw man..........excellent when on fire at night.......

 

strawman.jpg

 

Tuomas should write a dark and scary song about the Incredible Straw Man of Kitee that haunted his youth!

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@whitenoise

Good evening Whitenoise,

nuff said about those December trauma's over there........

 

Bocken_Press.jpg

 

 

 

I learned something new today.........never heard about this explanation before.

straw-man.jpg

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, Adrn_2810 said:

No, not what I was impying at all, you literally said, you want people driven away who like songs like Élan, hence the joke. I am fairly tired of having to explain such things to be honest.

Casual festival goers who like Elan and nothing heavier by the band.  If you've been a fan for many years and like Elan, well, I can't help you, but at least you're an actual fan.

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10 hours ago, JRA said:

Casual festival goers who like Elan and nothing heavier by the band.  If you've been a fan for many years and like Elan, well, I can't help you, but at least you're an actual fan.

I get what you are saying, and I see where you are coming from; you are proving my point though.

It should not be tied to any (arbitrary in that case) criteria whether or not anyone gets to see and or enjoy any band performing. I find heaviness to be a rather cynical one, especially with this band; Nightwish was never too heavy to begin with. Even if someone *only* likes songs like Élan, who am I to tell them to go away?

I wonder where this sentiment of exclusivety comes from. No surprise the fanbase is rather disjointed, so many people claim the authority to know best what is best that they would rather argue for who is right than to let people come together and just enjoy a couple of musicians doing their thing.

Whatever you find so trashy about Élan, I do not see; I honestly could not care less to find out though, because I am already fairly certain that in the end, it is basically nothing more than ◇I do not like it, therefore it is bad◇ and what could I or anyone argue with that?

 

 

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It's also worth considering that singles actually serve a purpose. They act like gateways into the rest of a band's catalogue. What songs you know and love going into the live show is irrelevant. It's what you walk away with that matters. If Élan is still the only song you care for after having heard stuff like Ghost Love Score, Devil & the Deep Dark Ocean and 10th Man Down... then yeah, that will probably be both your first and last Nigthwish concert.

Personally, I love Élan. Some of the best lyrics Tuomas has ever written. My biggest issue with this song has always been the studio mix. It sounds so weak. It's basically Celtic Nemo, but it sounds like Blackmore's Night on the album. It has a whole lot more punch to it live.

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I think Elan is cute but that's it. Not worth it to be passionate about.. 

I really dislike the guitar in the whole song before the key change. It's that boring 80's chugga chugga that adds nothing to lots of modern NW songs. 

I don't know why but it sounds much better post key change. The whole song should have been like that. 

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I just tire of Elan quick in the live setting. Just as I did with Amaranth.  I don't mind hearing Nemo or Wish I Had An Angel over and over again. Then again, Once is my favorite NW album still, so, that might be why, haha.

In the US at least, the audience attending Nightwish shows ranged from kids to old people. I was once again so surprised by the diversity of the age groups. I couldn't imagine some of them head banging to Slaying the Dreamer or Devil & The Deep Dark Ocean. I also had to remind myself if the band is celebrating 20 years, then some fans who got into them at age 40 are now 60. Also, some of those fans might be the ones who got into them through Elan, I Want My Tears Back, and The Islander. They sit through the other songs just to hear the one or two they love. Hopefully falling in love with songs like Ghost Love Score along the way.

Personally, I wish they would swap Elan for Alpenglow. Alpenglow has a similar feel, but, it's just a better song in my opinion. And would do well with the audience too. I suppose it's not as well known, as it wasn't released as a single (it really should have been).

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My biggest issue with Amaranth, which was not present in the few North American shows where they played it, is the constant "now you sing!" that Floor does every other sentence. It might work as a spontaneous moment every once in a while, but it's usually rehearsed and part of the performance. Call me greedy, but I want to her her sing all of it - not the audience! Especially in the performances that are being professionally recorded!

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On 23/5/2018 at 6:28 AM, SamB12 said:

@planet_terror Can you name a band with visuals up to your standard please?

Myself i i think the visuals are mostly decent and fitting.

The band within the genre that I can think of which I really like the overall visuals (videoclips, stage visuals, album covers, etc.), is Within Temptation. I really think Sharon den Adel has a clear view of what she wants and in that regard she is a really good art director to her band.

But also I said I am really displeased with visuas in general within symphonic metal, it being such an image-driven genre.

I mostly think many pop acts (one I can think of right now is Lorde) can really teach the metal scene a thing or two about visuals. (I am expecting this comment to come back with hatred since all of us metalheads are supposed to hate pop lol). Also as it was said before, inspiration coul be drawn from Cirque du Soleil, from some Broadway shows too, there are so many good references when it comes to art direction. My main problem with NW and their visual universe (or brand identity if you will) is their lack of quality. Of course I prefer that they invest more in musical quality than in visual quality, but visual quality is not so expensive if you work with the right people who can manage the right quality.

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